[QUOTE=stpauler]
Personally, I think the whole concept of “Black History Month” is offensive (or any celebration based on criteria that one has no control over, race, sex, gender, etc). So why not go whole hog and celebrate Michael Vick?
[/QUOTE]
Beacuse the problem with Michael Vick isn’t that he’s black.
Sailboat
[QUOTE=Omega Glory]
I don’t worry about the kids’ choices as much as the fact that they’re being taught by people who green-lighted those choices. If you’re going to have Black History month, shouldn’t it be used partly to teach kids that although they might only see blacks succeeding in the music field, or on the ball court, there are many others who’ve excelled in other fields? Or to teach them about potential role models that they’d never heard of before?
[/QUOTE]
Perhaps the adults didn’t see a problem with the children’s choices because they reflect what many black people value. Michael Vick is not an unexpected role model for young black children. He is an athlete. Many black people defended him by saying that what he did is cultural and the rest of us shouldn’t judge him without understanding where he comes from (the “it’s a black thing, you wouldn’t understand” defense).
My point is, the adults probably saw nothing wrong with the children’s choices because the children learn their values from the adults in the first place.
I don’t think the black support for Michael Vick is as wide-spread as some would have us believe. You can find a few oddballs who support almost anything, and parade them in front of the cameras.
[QUOTE=Lamar Mundane]
Why is it OK for white folks to speak highly of the Gates’ or the Rockefellers or Warren Buffet, but there’s something odd about black kids feeling proud of Oprah Winfrey?
I think you’re guilty not of being a clueless white person, just of bringing your prejudices to the event.
[/QUOTE]
Um, Lamar, I don’t know about you, but Bill Gates, the Rockefellers, and Waqrren Buffet don’t even come into the top 1000, maybe not even the top 10,000 most important “white people”, leaving aside the fact that lists of important “race x” people are incredible stupid things. Even if you were going for comtemporary people they’d barely make the list. Their accomplishments are impressive, but I see nothing about them which particularly makes them important. I would never dream of including them.
Oprah is not a particularly impressive person. I don’t bregrudge her her success, but she’s hardly done anything of importance.
[QUOTE=smiling bandit]
Um, Lamar, I don’t know about you, but Bill Gates, the Rockefellers, and Waqrren Buffet don’t even come into the top 1000, maybe not even the top 10,000 most important “white people”, leaving aside the fact that lists of important “race x” people are incredible stupid things. Even if you were going for comtemporary people they’d barely make the list. Their accomplishments are impressive, but I see nothing about them which particularly makes them important. I would never dream of including them.
Oprah is not a particularly impressive person. I don’t bregrudge her her success, but she’s hardly done anything of importance.
[/QUOTE]
I think you’re mistaken. She’ll go down as a hugely influential person in Black History, and it is Black History Month the kids were celebrating. I think you’re being too dismissive of the effect of economics on the sucesses of this country. The U.S. was still a pretty podunk country until the “Gilded Age” of the latter 1800’s.
[QUOTE=Omega Glory]
I don’t think the black support for Michael Vick is as wide-spread as some would have us believe. You can find a few oddballs who support almost anything, and parade them in front of the cameras.
[/QUOTE]
But it wasn’t for the cameras - it was at a school. And presumably the choice was supported by teachers. If a child decides to present on a controversial figure, that’s fine, but it’s not like Vick’s crimes covered some kind of grey area regarding freedom of speech or human rights.
[QUOTE=burundi]
“Lift Every Voice and Sing” was written by James Weldon Johnson in 1900. It was adopted as the “Negro National Anthem” in the early 20th century. I can see why, in the days of lynchings and Jim Crow, black folks wouldn’t feel too much attachment to The Star-Spangled Banner. You could argue that there’s no need for a “separate” anthem today, but IMO, it would be shame to lose “Lift Every Voice.” It’s a beautiful song–gives me chills every time I hear it–and one that I think all Americans should be able to identify with.
Here are the lyrics to the first verse:
(Mods, I hope it’s okay to post all of that. I don’t think the song is copyrighted.)
[/QUOTE]
That man wrote some amazing things. He had a true gift with words.
[QUOTE=TroubleAgain]
That man wrote some amazing things. He had a true gift with words.
[/QUOTE]
It was very pretty indeed…I was just unsure what the proper thing for a person not African American to do while it was being sung? Do you happen to know if it was disrespectful for me to have sung along once I picked up the tune?
[QUOTE=HazelNutCoffee]
But it wasn’t for the cameras - it was at a school. And presumably the choice was supported by teachers. If a child decides to present on a controversial figure, that’s fine, but it’s not like Vick’s crimes covered some kind of grey area regarding freedom of speech or human rights.
[/QUOTE]
Bolding mine. I have no idea where you’re going with this. 
[QUOTE=smiling bandit]
Um, Lamar, I don’t know about you, but Bill Gates, the Rockefellers, and Waqrren Buffet don’t even come into the top 1000, maybe not even the top 10,000 most important “white people”, leaving aside the fact that lists of important “race x” people are incredible stupid things. Even if you were going for comtemporary people they’d barely make the list. Their accomplishments are impressive, but I see nothing about them which particularly makes them important. I would never dream of including them.
Oprah is not a particularly impressive person. I don’t bregrudge her her success, but she’s hardly done anything of importance.
[/QUOTE]
Take a look at a selection of “children’s biographies” someday. Bill Gates and Oprah have mutliple books about them because they’re very popular figures for the grade school “historical figure” essays.
Hell, the other day a kid asked me for information about the inventor of the Super Soaker for a 1st grade essay project. Who, coincidentally, was a black man and a rocket scientist.
That blew my mind, the guy who invented the Super Soaker was a rocket scientist! That is beyond awesome.
EDIT:
[QUOTE=Omega Glory]
Bolding mine. I have no idea where you’re going with this.
[/QUOTE]
He means that Vick is just a simple criminal, not someone breaking an unjust law for a cause like Rosa Parks or MLK.
You see this all the time with foreign athletes at sporting events when another national anthem is sung- they just stand there and look ahread, or down. I imagine the same would be expected here, but since this is the first I’ve heard of a black national anthem, who knows?
[QUOTE=Justin_Bailey]
Take a look at a selection of “children’s biographies” someday. Bill Gates and Oprah have mutliple books about them because they’re very popular figures for the grade school “historical figure” essays.
[/quote]
But are they really important enough to be noted as great figures or something in school? Granted, the idea that Bill Gates and Oprah are that popular in school essays blows my mind.
Economics I can see. Somebody who just gets rich - no matter how much money they make - jsut doesn’t seem that important to me. And I can maybe see mentioning the Gilded Age’s big stars. But that would be about it, and only because of the enormous impact they had in making “Big Business.” I realy don’t see why anyone would care about them outside of that.
[QUOTE=Aries28]
It was very pretty indeed…I was just unsure what the proper thing for a person not African American to do while it was being sung? Do you happen to know if it was disrespectful for me to have sung along once I picked up the tune?
[/QUOTE]
White folks sing this song all the time at events. This is not like communion, where you have to be believer in order to partake of the wine and bread. It’s really not that serious.
[QUOTE=Justin_Bailey]
He means that Vick is just a simple criminal, not someone breaking an unjust law for a cause like Rosa Parks or MLK.
[/QUOTE]
Okay, but I still don’t see how that ties into how far reaching the support for Michael Vick is, unless that sentence was meant to be a stand-alone thought, and not a reply to the quote.
In regards to the “camera” comment, I wasn’t talking about this program, as much as the Pro Vick people that **Gus ** was talking about.
[QUOTE=smiling bandit]
But are they really important enough to be noted as great figures or something in school? Granted, the idea that Bill Gates and Oprah are that popular in school essays blows my mind.
[/QUOTE]
I think so. Even if you ignore their vast wealth, Gates was a major driving force by the PC/Internet revolution and Oprah has done more for charitable causes and promoting literacy than practically any other “famous” person.
[QUOTE=Omega Glory]
Okay, but I still don’t see how that ties into how far reaching the support for Michael Vick is, unless that sentence was meant to be a stand-alone thought, and not a reply to the quote.
[/QUOTE]
I just thought that was a stand-alone thought.
[QUOTE=you with the face]
White folks sing this song all the time at events. This is not like communion, where you have to be believer in order to partake of the wine and bread. It’s really not that serious.
[/QUOTE]
Thanks! 
Based on a few looks and nods in my direction I felt that maybe I had done something viewed as wrong for me to have done. I wanted to know in case it ever comes up in the future as I truly don’t want to do anything to hurt or offend my kids nor build up more of a wall with the parents until they get to know me.
[QUOTE=Mahna Mahna]
Sorry… I’m still hung up on the idea of an African American National Anthem.
Say what?
[/QUOTE]
Me too. Where exactly is African America? Does the U.S. have diplomatic relations with it? What are its major exports and industries? What’s the dollar exchange rate with whatever the African American currency is? I tried to find it on Google Maps, but no luck.
[QUOTE=Aries28]
…there are only 15 kids in my class and I can think of many other Black Americans I would think of first before Oprah.
[/QUOTE]
Really? Specifically female role models?
I think Oprah is a terrific role model already, but especially for women – let alone black women. We’re used to racism, particularly black/white racism being an overtly political topic, but sexism is commonly taken for granted, and issues of gender bias dismissed or waved away even when empirically obvious.
FTR, I’m neither black nor a woman, but Oprah is on my list of people I greatly admire.
No, someone who “just got rich” would be like, say, John Paulson, a hedge fund manager who was profiled in the Wall St. Journal a few months ago for taking home three to four billion dollars in 2007 – that’s billions with a B, and that’s his own take-home pay, not the fund’s profit overall, and for just one year – by betting heavily on a collapse in real estate/mortgage based bonds.
Few people outside of the world of finance will understand what he did to make that money, or even realize that he did. But people like Oprah and Bill Gates have profoundly influenced the society and the economy of their times. They’re cultural icons as well. You may not be fans of their works or associated products, but they’re definitely role models for making the most of yourself – not just in financial terms, but also in societal and cultural terms.
[QUOTE=Omega Glory]
Okay, but I still don’t see how that ties into how far reaching the support for Michael Vick is, unless that sentence was meant to be a stand-alone thought, and not a reply to the quote.
In regards to the “camera” comment, I wasn’t talking about this program, as much as the Pro Vick people that **Gus ** was talking about.
[/QUOTE]
Okay, well, I thought you were referring to the OP. My latter comment was referring to the idea that supporting Vick could be seen as a “you don’t understand our culture” thing, which was floating around in this thread. Either way, I don’t think we’re disagreeing about anything.
FWIW, I looked up “African American National Anthem” and it’s much older than you might think. Was this it?
This was first performed on Lincoln’s Birthday in 1900 and was adopted as the official anthem of the NAACP in 1919 (then called “The Negro National Anthem”). It spread quickly throughout black churches in the South as a protest/reaction to Jim Crow laws and KKK lynchings.
I’ve never heard of this song, but the school mentioned in the OP is in Birmingham, Alabama where it would have deep local roots. It is not some newly-invented Black Pride thing a la Kwanzaa.
ETA: Oops, missed burundi’s post pointing out the same thing.