“Enlightened despotism” is an oxymoron…right up there with “military intelligence.”
Fascism is fascism, and there is nothing at all positive or “enlightened” about it.
The government of Singapore is the equivalent of Nazi Germany, Stalin’s USSR, or Mussolini’s Italy. As a person of conscience, I cannot and will not stand for it.
I feel really sorry for anyone who thinks they can possibly be “happy” living under such a soul-crushing system of violence, corruption, and fascism.
Maybe it does work. And, so did Stalin’s and Hitler’s systems. And Mussolini made the trains run on time.
Just because something “works” does not make it morally defensible.
I like Singapore. ‘Fascist hell hole’ is, um, a little strong to say the least. Have you had a bad experience there?
No, I have never been there and never will go there. At least, not until the current fascist government is replaced by one which is truly democratic and committed to respecting human rights and freedom.
A question for Dragon Phoenix and any other Singapore Dopers: how are the rules on things like search and seizure? Can the police search you anytime, anywhere, or are warrants required (and would you say they are used honestly)?
How long can you be held without being charged? Are you legally entitled to speak to a lawyer (my co-worker didn’t have any trouble with that)? How does the court system compare with other nations?
A lot to ask, but I’m kind of curious now.
Also, Jerrybear, which countries do you feel “respect human rights and freedoms”?
That says a lot.
Refusal to travel to places on human rights grounds is theoretically a laudable attitude, but it certainly does limit one’s travel - most governments around the world, and especially in Asia, have poor human rights (depending on your POV). Kind of rules out most of Asia, not to mention the Americas, Africa, and large parts of Europe.
May I respectfully suggest that you tone down your vehemence until you have a clue what you’re talking about?
Not too many, if any, I’m afraid to say.
I am a radical, anarchist Green (my political heroes are folks like Noam Chomsky, Emma Goldman, and Abbie Hoffman), so most if not all current national governments fail to meet my standards at least to a certain degree. Some, like Singapore’s, fail by a much greater degree than others.
I have been to Singapore and found most of the people living there very supportive of the government. Most of the Singaporeans I spoke to speak pretty freely about things they would like to change, but overall are happy. Many of them recall as time in their not so distant past when there was war and a lot of social problems, they credit thier current government for “fixing” these problems. I am not or do not pretend to be up on all things political, but I can only tell you what I heard while there.
The only not happy person I met was a cab driver, but he was pretty miserable about everything in his life.
I can certainly understand how some of you may thumb your nose at a society that does not seem “free” and sounds “oppressed”, all I can say is the average citizen I spoke to, did not feel oppressed. Not once while I was there did I feel in danger, or like I was being “watched”, it was a clean place with a culture very, very different than my own.
I’m sure the people of Singapore will be very upset to hear that.
Given the tone of your post, it is probably best for your own well being that you make sure you follow through with what you say.
And there were many “good Germans” who thought ol’ Adolph was all that and a bag of chips.
And there were many Italians who loved Mussolini.
And many Russians who thought Stalin was A-OK.
Just because some people don’t mind fascist oppression does not mean that fascist oppression is OK.
It is still fascist oppression.
And it still sucks!
Thank you for your opinion. I respect your right to have it, and to express it. You have expressed it several times here.
I, for one, would not mind living in Singapore. I either never did or no longer do drugs, drink, smoke, chew gum, litter, damage others’ property maliciously, or many other actions restricted by their government. I have been there many times for business, and it served as my “hub” for travel in that region. I enjoyed my visits. An Army Captian friend of mine was transferred there several years ago, and he loved it.
I never bothered to find out about finding out what the police can and cannot do. I adhere to the law. I have never had any dealings with the police. Heck, in spite of my frequent travels, I have never even been checked at the customs.
Singapore is far from heaven on earth, but it is a decent country to live in. Still, I am glad we are leaving in two weeks time, but that is because of the climate and the smallness of the country rather than because of the regime.
Heaven on earth? That would be where I am going tomorrow…Ann Arbor, Michigan!!!
If heaven on earth is not Ann Arbor, then it is certainly San Francisco.
Rules on search/seizure etc are almost certainly more heavily tilted in the favor of the authorities than in, say, the US. Ditto with length of detention, etc. However, there is due process, and if you’re from a place with the English legal tradition you’d find the system reasonably familiar.
Jerrybear is over-the-top. You can make an argument for SIN being “fascist” but only insofar as many other undemocratic societies are - the entire Arab world, most of Africa and most of Asia. And, as any pro-SIN person would say, it at least delivers very high material living standards. My reservations about SIN, with regard to the legal system would be…
I seem to recall your hero Noam Chomsky telling interviewer Tim Sebastian that there was “no such thing as moral equivalence” and that the term itself was a linguistic tool of fascism. So maybe you’re not expressing yourself in an ideal fashion…
Criticize Singapore if you wish, there are plenty of good examples of where they are restrictive, corrupt, or draconian. But don’t lead your arguments with absurd, insulting “equivalencies” unless you want to avoid discussion in favor of a hissy-fit soapbox derby.
But maybe that is what you want–if so, bug off and go start a GD or pit thread. We’re trying to keep things whimsical here. Or didn’t you read the posted sign at the MPSIMS border checkpoint?
** Death Penalty for Drug Traffickers, Exile for Irritating Demagogues**
Boy the world has changed since my drug laced youth. Now Australia is exporting drugs to Asia.
As a Chomsky afficionado who votes with their feet, I’m surprised you can bear to be anywhere in a country that has a Republican leadership.
how are the rules on things like search and seizure?Can the police search you anytime, anywhere, or are warrants required (and would you say they are used honestly)?
Police arrest/search/bail procedures
http://www.spinet.gov.sg/procedures/index.htm
Are you legally entitled to speak to a lawyer (my co-worker didn’t have any trouble with that)?
Everyone is entitled to their own defence unless they are held under the Internal Security Act, which deals with subversive/spying cases.
** How does the court system compare with other nations?**
It has several courts, like most other countries, with the most important one being the Supreme Court, which for most of the time does not decide on criminal cases. The system, as Hemlock has mentioned, is more based on the English legal system, where the judge decides the outcome instead of a jury. For non-criminal lawsuits, (I think), there would be a panel of judges in charge. There is also the Syariah court which rules on Muslim religious issues like divorces.
Hemlock also mentioned that people sued by the government always lose. Well… the US Supreme Court was hostile towards Roosevelt’s New Deal policies, and it wasn’t until Roosevelt appointed 5 judges before they became more amendable… get the drift?
I smoke a lot but when I travelled to Thailand, Malaysia and Singapore I didn’t go near the stuff. I pity the stupid bastard.