Jelly fish, Guin? 
Thanks for noticing - cycling, skating and hockey have always been great for tone.
Are you telling Dewey that he has misread the code?? Or that he has misundestood it??
Doubtful. There are unions for white collar workers available. For instance, government workers are unionized, as are union office workers.
The problem is that survey after survey of most white-collar professionals are pretty satisfied with their jobs. At least, they tend not to have any major concerns that unions would have much luck changing (stupid bureaucratic procedures, dumb bosses, etc.). So it’s really difficult to get them to join up, especially when there are other organizations who might focus more specifically on the issue they are concerned about.
Because most people work under economic duress – no work, no money, no food, no clothing, no shelter. When you are forced by economic duress to work and your employer can fire you at will, your situation is much like that of a slave, though I will concede it is not exactly like that of a slave. Close enough for gummint work, in any event.
Fuck! How the hell did that happen? I don’t want you motherfucking assholes do any more of that goddamned swearing on this shit-eating thread, dammit!
Sorry, an association is not the same thing as a union. If I had meant “union” that was what I would have said. Hence, you have no point.
**The problem is that survey after survey of most white-collar professionals are pretty satisfied with their jobs. At least, they tend not to have any major concerns that unions would have much luck changing (stupid bureaucratic procedures, dumb bosses, etc.). So it’s really difficult to get them to join up, especially when there are other organizations who might focus more specifically on the issue they are concerned about. **
I have read that there is much more discontent than there used to be. Also, the ranks of the jobless and most especially the underemployed has grown huge under the Bush administration – that would be the place to start.
<Legolas>
Beautiful hair and a butt like granite.
</Legolas>
Not really, EC. The worker has the ability to find other work, start his/her own firm and compete with his firm, move to a new city, cut expenses and live in the woods, what-have-you. Modern employment is nothing like slavery.
Really, what we did here in Northern Virginia during the tech boom should count against workers in the cosmic karma. I think the average time in tech jobs was something like 8 months during the boom. So it’s not all ‘evil employers exploiting workers’…depending on the economy it can work the other way.
I certainly agree with county that, at one time, the difference between strikebreaking companies and the government was tough to distinguish. But that’s not true right now. The time of government funded and approved ‘goon squads’ is in the past. If the administration funded them they’d be facing impeachment by next week.
Unions have their place. They give authority to workers in the constant give and take between management and labor and that’s not a bad thing.
Fair enough. Are you just talking about some sort of lobbying group that works on behalf of white collars?
Of course, no need to be a fucking dick about it. It’s not my fault you can’t communicate clearly.
Ass.
Actually, you’re wrong. It IS like slavery. Being able to work for different employers is slightly better than being owned. But it can be a subtle distinction. To put it in modern terms, you can hoe cotton in Marse Delta’s field, or Marse IBMs’ field, or Marse Northrop’s fields, but you still be hoeing cotton for de Man, ennyway you slice it. An if de Man doan like you he can jes toss you out and den you starvin’ and happy to hoe cotton in ennybody’s field.
Pretty much, though I wasn’t talking about just white collars, but blue collars as well. It seems to me that corporations are very well represented in government, if we had some org that was gettign funds from most working folk and also some non-working folk, and spending it for influence in Congress, maybe the playing field between workers and employers might level out a bit. A lot, actually. Right now it’s like watching Mike Tyson go after a Girl Scout.
Of course, no need to be a fucking dick about it. It’s not my fault you can’t communicate clearly.
I might have been a fucking dick about it, but to be fair, I wrote “Association” you read “union” – how is that my fault?
Ass
I told you guys about that motherfuckiing cursing!
All this ass-biting makes me anxious.
That’s just…well…stupid, EC.
You have the right to leave…the firm has the right to let you go. Is there some reason it should be otherwise? Should the employee be locked into staying at a firm, perhaps?
What you’re arguing against is the entire concept of working for a living. Until we get to that crazy mad Star Trek world where food comes cheaply out of replicators and energy is fusion and cheap we all need to keep the economic wheels turning by earning our daily bread.
Or are you arguing for the Jeffersonian ideal of independant yeoman farmers supplying for themselves?
Of course. There’s only a subtle distinction between paid employment and slavery.
Erm, when was the last time you were whipped at your office. Frankly I always thought I was a bit hard on some of my employees, but in light of your claim I can see I’ve been beyond lenient with them. Forget profit related bonuses, I’m chaining the fuckers to the desks from now on.
Dear Sir/Madam,
I am interested in the ass-biting position you advertise but I am not sure of the qualifications you require. Is being tight-assed a firm requirement or simply something desirable? I ask because I am somewhat tight-assed but not to an extreme degree. Would this alone disqualify me? On the other hand I can bite quite well as I have ample experience in this field having bitten the Archbishop of Canterbury and HRH Prince Charles.
Evil Captor,
What’s with your “working under duress” obsession? Comparing modern day employment with slavery is just ridiculous. And blue collar and white collar workers are most definately represented in government. Would you like me to mail you a California Lobbyist Directory? Trust me, they’re all represented here.
Start your own business and then you’ll know what slavery is all about. Including the whippings if the IRS gets on your ass.
Thanks for bringing that up Jonathan, evil is pretty much arguing against working for a living. If making money to live isn’t the primary motivation for working, than what is? Why would people work if they didn’t have to? If everyone that works for money is working under duress, why do so many professionals spend years in school in order to work in a profession such as medicine or law? How are they being coerced into it? If their sole purpose of obtaining those jobs is survival, why do they bother with all of the education? Why don’t they just get a job at MickyD’s straight out of high school? I mean, a jobs a job right? Everyone in the entire world that works is doing so because they’re essentially forced to, right? Not in their right minds when taking the job?
That statement is so beyond stupid it boggles the mind.
A long time ago I worked in the Telecom field…in a Union Shop. The Union did try to protect some people who I thought should have been fired. BUT…
(…betcha thought I was going to say “Ass”)
Every single manager who was there when I got there (and they All had less of an education than I did) would intentionally try to f-ck with me as an employee as well as my other colleagues. (At the time, this place paid very well) At manager meetings which I occasionally attended as a requested ‘stand in’ (‘someone took a day off, but someone has to be there’ situation) the managers would brag to each other about what they did to who and it became apparent that this was done to curry favour with the next level higher management. Finally, someone took me aside & said “if you want a promotion around here, you better be 100% anti union and bust the chops of any union employee anytime you can. Mess with their heads, Anything. Don’t worry about them…their protected by a Union, or their supposed to be. But the one who has the most Union Grievances has the best chance of getting a good review & being promoted higher.”
Basically, if you had a bad day, you were supposed to figuratively kick an employee rather than go home and kick your dog. To be honest, I found trouble adapting to what I called the “Asshole Management Method”. Please keep in mind that on days where I wasn’t standing in for my manager that I was among those getting kicked.
I very quietly made arrangements to get another job in another company and I’ve Never regretted it. Union negotiating people were no prizes, but from what I’ve seen, the managers where unions are in place are The Asshats of All Asshats. And the only victims were the people who were just trying to do their jobs.
I can see that, quietman. I can see it from both sides. I work in a union hall (no, I’m not union, they give me the office space for free) and am very familiar with the history of unions and the need for unions. OTOH, I can see where managers are coming from too, Unions can easily render a manager helpless in a management situation. I’ve seen people get screwed by unions (workers and companies) many a time. I’ve also seen situations where Unions really came through. I think the bad cancels out the good and leaves a sort of null situation, really.