"College Coaches Always Fail in the NFL"

The Game Room
1

Inspired by the recent hiring of Pete Carroll as coach of the Seahawks…

No sooner was Pete Carroll hired as head coach of the Seahawks than commentators started pointing out how badly many top college coaches have done as head coaches in the NFL.

Lou Holtz failed miserably in the NFL. So did Bobby Petrino, Mike Riley, Dennis Erickson, Bud Wilkinson, Steve Spurrier, Nick Saban, Frank Kush, and Dick MacPherson, among others. Hence, say many commentators, Pete Carroll is doomed to failure. College coaches, with their “rah rah” nonsense, can’t succeed in the NFL.

Now, I make no predictions about how Pete Carroll will do in Seattle. Nor do I dispute that MOST college coaches who’ve tired to work in the NFL have failed. Nor will I belabor the fact that many college coaches have done extremely well in pro football (Paul Brown was a college head coach, as were Bill Walsh, Dick Vermeil, Marv Levy, Jimmie Johnson and Tom Coughlin. all of whom took teams to the Super Bowl).

What I will point out is, MOST head coaches in the NFL fail, period. It doesn’t matter where you find them, MOST of them are going to fail. Whether an owner hires a successful college coach, a top NFL offensive coordinator, a top NFL defensive coordinator, or a guy with past experience as an NFL head coach, odds are that owner is going to fire that coach before his first contract expires.

Do you think great NFL defensive coordinators pan out any better than college coaches? Think again. The following guys were defensive coordinators for Super Bowl winning teams: Richie Petitbon, Dave Wannstedt, Steve Spagnuolo, Romeo Crennel, Bill Arnsparger, Dick LeBeau, Marvin Lewis, and Bud Carson. All of those men eventually became head coaches I nthe NFL. Quick- how many combined Super Bowls did those guys win? Let’s see… zero.

Do you think hiring former Super Bowl winning coaches is a great idea? The Seahawks thought so, when they hired Tom Flores. How did that pan out? The Chiefs hired Dick Vermeil, the Panthers hired George Seifert, the Dolphins hired Jimmie Johnson, the Saints hired both Mike Ditka and Hank Stram, the Redskins brought back Joe Gibbs. Any of those hirings work out brilliantly?

The point is, YES, hiring a college coach as an NFL is very risky, and usually fails. But the truth is, hiring ANY coach from ANY background is risky, and usually fails. Pete Carroll will PROBABLY get fired in a few years, without winning any championships. But in all likelihood, so will Mike Shanahan. That’s life in the NFL.

2

Denny Green ended with a winning record, he just couldn’t do it in the playoffs.

Tony Dungy was his Defensive Coordinator. And he won a Superbowl.

3

Pete Carroll already failed in the NFL. Look at his record as head coach with the Patriots.

4

Know what other college coach failed in the NFL? Pete Carroll.

Dammit Skammer!

5

The difference with Carroll is that he has significant NFL experience already, including time as a HC. While he wasn’t great, he wasn’t terrible either.

You’re right though that most coaches fail. Or maybe not “fail” but regress to the mean (which is .500). They have to get lucky with the right combination of players and other front office people to get a nice streak of winning seasons going. I mean, Belichick wasn’t that great of a coach in Cleveland, goes to NE, has Brady fall into his lap, and now he’s Lombardi reincarnated. How would Walsh have done without Montana and Rice?

That’s why I think Parcells, for all his bluster, deserves lot of credit. He’s done it 4 times now where he’s turned a team around. That’s the true test, doing it with more than 1 team.

6

I think Walsh could have won a Superbowl without Rice.

7

:smiley: I just knew someone would point that out

8

Yes, Pete Carroll has been an NFL head coach before. But he was fired by the Jets NOT for doing a bad job, but because owner Leon Hess was insanely enamored of Rich Kotite. Carroll might or might not have turned the Jets around, but he was fired after just one season because Hess was convinced Kotite was the ideal man for the job.

Kotite was a disaster, of course.

And I really think that incident is a big part of what makes Carroll want to go back. He STILL thinks he got a raw deal from the Jets, and wants another chance to prove himself. It may or may not work out.

9

Pete “I’m jacked and pumped” Carroll’s Patriots teams got worse every year, after he inherited Parcells’ roster. Don’t get your hopes up about Seattle, either. USC was the perfect place for him and he could have become a college legend there.

10

You can make a list of coaches who were successful in multiple stops, but it may not be a very long list.

Depending on your definition of “successful”, the ones I can think of off the top of my head (some have already been mentioned):

Bill Parcells (Giants, Patriots, Jets, Cowboys)
Jimmy Johnson (Cowboys, Dolphins)
Vince Lombardi (Packers, Redskins…though, he died before he could really get things going in Washington)
George Allen (Rams, Redskins)
Mike Holmgren (Packers, Seahawks)
Dick Vermeil (Eagles, Rams…astorian noted his lack of success with the Chiefs)
Marty Schottenheimer (Browns, Chiefs, Redskins, Chargers…but known for his lack of playoff success)
Weeb Eubank (Colts, Jets)

Schottenheimer and Allen aside, all of the rest of these coaches have a Super Bowl victory on their resume…but only at one of their stops. Eubank won two championships with the Colts, in addition to Super Bowl III with the Jets, but that was before the Super Bowl

11

And of those, the only one who was a notable success at a college team too, or even coached at one at all, was Jimmy Johnson. So it can be done.

(Yes, I know about George Allen at Long Beach State, whose players killed him by dumping cold Gatorade on him and inducing a heart attack).

12

Barry Switzer :wink:

13

“Almost All Coaches (Eventually) Fail in the NFL”

14

I’ll see him and raise you Paul Brown.

15

Yep. I was going to make this same comment. Many who have struggled at little or no NFL experience.

16

When Denny Green was in Minnesota, many people despised him. At the time, I was contrarian. I thought…maybe he is just so good that he gets a mediocre team into the playoffs where they just get so outclassed and crushed.

People I brought this up to looked at me like I was insane.

Turns out they were right. At the time though…it seemed possible to me.