If it were my decision, I’d consider American above WashU. Washington has enough opportunities for internships and volunteering that she can be exposed to real-world applications of whatever fields she’s interested in. For example, if history flips her switch, she may consider volunteering at the Smithsonian, which would be a good entry on any resume. If she wants to study law, she can observe in courtrooms at various levels to see what it’s like, or she can get an internship at a regulatory agency or some such. Ditto for journalism; she can do internships at real news organizations like NPR, VOA, the Washington Post, or wherever. And, of course, if she can get into the honors program, it’ll open up even more opportunities for her. Finally, at least for journalism, real-world experience in the profession counts lot more than academics; it’s better to major in a science or social science than it is to major in journalism. And there’s no better place to get that experience than Washington.
I figured Wash U was a good bet, as well.
The thing about American is that there are a lot of other good colleges here in DC. Georgetown, George Washington, Maryland, and George Mason are all close by. Honestly, I always forget that American is there when it’s time to recruit interns or whatever. That is something that wouldn’t happen at Wash U.
I grew up in St. Louis and live in DC now. DC obviously has a lot to offer to the young and energetic. St. Louis has its down sides, but the area around Wash U has some fun stuff. I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad place to spend four years. (How’s that for an enthusiastic endorsement?)
Get a read on what she thinks of the vibe at American.
It is astonishingly expensive, and that tends to attract a certain demographic. And it is very, very East Coast. As a Californian, I found the undergrad culture to be utterly foreign, but of course your daughter may think differently. But I’d say its not really the best fit for free spirit types.
Their international stuff is very good on the grad level, I’m not sure how well that trickles down to undergrad. But international is their real strength.
DC is a blast, and there are tons of opportunities. It’s worth keeping in mind that housing and food is very expensive. A student room in a shared house can easily be $750-$900 a month, especially near campus.
Manda JO: We’re aware of a lot of the issues you bring up about Wash U. We’re pretty sure that they consider her highly likely to attend, given that she visited and is a double legacy. Not that her credentials are out of their range, but yield protection was probably a factor. Even when we were there in ancient times, the academics were pretty rigorous, but only the pre-meds seemed to feel the “meat grinder” pressure. Otherwise, it was–and, according to folks we know who’ve gone there much more recently, still is–a friendly, nurturing environment. She loved it on her visit, and got along fantastically with the girls who hosted her in their dorm room. That said, everything is different when you go from being a tourist to being an immigrant.
Mock Trial is definitely a thing at American. Part of her offer from them was a (small) Mock Trial scholarship, in fact.
BetsQ: We loved the area around Wash U when we were there. Especially the Art Museum and the Zoo in Forest Park. Couldn’t beat the admission prices for poor undergrads.
even sven: Well, every single school she’s applied to is about the same price (shockingly high). Are you saying American suffers from USC (University of Spoiled Children) Syndrome more than the others? And, does that apply in the honors college? She’s spent some time in DC, and really likes it. Plus, we have family and friends there, which is not the case for St. Louis, so she’d have an off campus support network. Good to know about the cost of off campus housing. That does seem a bit high, but I am old and remember when a $20 bill was worth something.
I’ve a High School Senior as well and am in my third round through this. He applied to an absurd number of schools and has so far been accepted to 4 (one offering merit money), rejected from 2, waitlisted at 7(!), and waiting to hear from I think 3 or 4 more including what I think is his first choice albeit a bit of a reach.
FWIW:
It really does not matter much. Let’s face it, how much our kids get out of whatever college they go to is most of all based on who they are, no matter where they are. Of the remainder much is random … who they meet, whether a particular professor connects. And of the remaining bits most students and families visit and overweight the least important aspects, was it pretty that day I visited? did I like my tour guide?
That said I’d rather my kid (or myself) not risk being the smartest in the room. Much better to be in the middle of a pack or below and challenged to think more and learn from those around you. I won’t be pressuring my kid to go where the money is.
Bottomline: this has to be her choice. She needs ownership over it. Not that I am great about keeping my mouth shut but I do think I should.
IMHO if you are going to turn down academics for location then it should be for a specific reason that meets her professional and personal goals. If she were very certain she wanted to go directly into journalism or museum work then I could see it. But from what you said it sounds like she has a bent toward humanities and social science, maybe media/communications, but doesn’t haven’t any more specific plans at this point and is not certain if she will go to law/grad school or not. In that case I would not turn down a school that a cut above in academics.
I would count personal factors in the above too, if she is very passionate about living in DC or the East Coast then I would give that some weight, but I’m not getting that from the OP.
I don’t know a lot of detail about their undergrad and honors programs, and I have met some very smart and dynamic undergrads, but “entitled” is the impression I got. I remember one memorable conversation on the shuttle where a student expressed shock and pity that her classmate had never vacationed in the Maldives. What I’m dancing around is that there are better schools in the area, and cheaper schools in the area, and even better, cheaper schools in the area. Some percentage of AU undergrads seem to be people who are trying to purchase prestige. That said, they do have some very good international programs and great study abroad options, and if she is interested in that, it could be a good choice. Just make sure she will be comfortable in a very preppy, conventional, ambitious, but not necessarily rawly intellectual atmosphere. Think “power player” rather than “visionary.” Think J. Crew, weekly manicures at the one campus salon, and lots of coordinated designer dorm decorations. This may be your daughter’s scene, but as a hippy-dippy west coaster, I found it pretty exotic.
It’s not just housing that is pricey. A plain to-go turkey sandwich on campus costs about $7.95. It’s tough to get a burger in DC without spending $12.00. A nothing special one bedroom apartment is $1500-$2,000. I spend $150 a month just on metro. Plan for higher living expenses than you’d expect.
Another comment: focusing on “prestige” vs “location” seem off target.
Both locations have much to offer and something to say against them.
The big issue is who her peers will be. A smaller school with a diverse population (not just superficially diverse, I mean POV diverse, in ways that force her to expand her ways of thinking) all at her intellectual level albeit in diffferent ways? Wonderful! One full of people who she won’t connect with? Not so wonderful.
Good luck to both our kids!
Yep. Peers are key. It will definitely help her to visit AU this week. She’ll go to classes and hang out a bit with a friend from her HS Mock Trial team who is a freshman there now.
Amen to that. BTW, you must have spent a year’s tuition on application fees. I thought 7 was a lot for my daughter, but with the Common App, it seems like that’s almost a minimum these days. Back when you had to type (with a typewriter!) or hand print every damn application separately, I applied to 3.
Apropo of nothing: My HS crush did her Ph.D (biochem) at Washington (finished c. '04)
The Common App does make it less difficult (and less costly) to apply to absurd numbers of schools. I was thinking that the work of individual essays would make him restrict his net cast some … but noooo. (I really did love his University of Chicago essay though. Did your daughter apply there? Every year one of the choices is a more offbeat one and this time it was “So where is Waldo Anyway?” to which he wrote a film noir script set in Chicago with the hard bitten private eye getting a case of a pretty girl looking for her missing boyfriend, Waldo, who turns out to be a serial killer … ending with a striped shirt and hat wearing figure coming out of the shadows behind them and “Stay Tuned!” 
Waitlisted. 
But it was a reach school for him. And he is indeed staying tuned!)
The increase in number of schoools applied to per student (a big increase I think since my last kid did this four years ago) must be impacting the decisions the colleges make in response too … Me, I applied binding Early Decision to the state school and binding Early decision to Med School. Never went through all this myself.
After reading this thread and reflecting on my own college experiences, I thin the decision comes down to which college she feels like she fits in the best. Disregard the internships, disregard the location, disregard the size of each: those are very good schools and a smart person will make their own path at either one, as long as they are happy.
So, instead of making out a list of pros/cons for each university, let her go with her gut.
That sounds like a great essay. She briefly flirted with Chicago and Northwestern, but decided not to apply. We thought Chicago would be a good fit, but she was unmoved.
Her dream school was really UNC-Chapel Hill, to which she applied Early Action (non-binding), but they accept so few out-of-state students, it was never very likely, and they turned her down. Brown is definitely her big reach school. Her test scores are in range, but her GPA is a little low for them (not hopeless, but not great). Plus, she has neither founded a multi-million dollar NGO or business venture, nor has she cured any variety of cancer, during her summer vacations, which seem to be requirements for admission at most of the Ivies these days. On the other hand, I have cousins who are active alumni who went there with one of the current admissions officers, and they put in a good word. Also, her interview went so well that the interviewer was offering to help her find summer internships before it was over. So you never know. Emory is very like Wash U, but our interactions with their admissions people have been a little off-putting. She did love the history department when she visited, though. I think she has a plausible chance of getting in there, which will complicate the decision even more.
She was also accepted to U of Denver, which was always her safety, so that’s not happening (too close to home). Wait list at Kenyon, which was probably due to lack of demonstrated interest (their app was free, and their recruiting materials were really fun, so she just went ahead and applied).
We (from the Midwest and California) applied at and visited a couple of east coast mini-ivies.
My concern was the culture - they were just not our kind of people, and we were just not their kind of people. I’m sure, had the kid-ling been accepted and attended, they would have made their way somehow. But I can’t help feeling they would have felt like an outsider / alien in a lot of ways. And they are not someone who has much experience feeling like an outsider.
Thankfully(?), we didn’t get accepted, so we didn’t have to deal with that. Instead, ended up at a Big 10 - just the right fit.
My older daughter went there. If a kid thinks the UofC essay is stupid, they will not enjoy themselves there, since the essay reflects the school quite well. She loved the place.
I went to grad school at Chicago, the undergrad college is known to be a school for self-described intellectuals who value academic pursuit and curiosity above all else, in particular social life. An unusually high number of their undergrads go to grad school, as in, directly into a research track PhD. If that describes your daughter … well, I admit I don’t know much about these two schools but I’m surprised you’re asking the question in the OP.
If it doesn’t describe your kid then I wouldn’t loose a moment’s sleep about the fact that she didn’t apply there.
Fair point. The description I heard for UofC is that the freshman show up, enter the library, and come out 4 years later, blinking at the sun, with a degree. I think the lack of social life was what turned her off.
She’s curious about everything, and intellectually serious, but she also feels the need to kick back and have a little fun on occasion. Being her father, I don’t really approve of that kind of nonsense, but I’ve spent most of my kids’ lives quoting Chef: “Kids, there’s a time and place for everything, and that time and place is college.” So I suppose I have to take some responsibility for her attitude. 
Went to med school there years back. Nah. Undergrads definitely have a social life and a goofy side. But definitiely for those who care about the life of the mind for its own sake more than as a means to an end. In contrast to some schools in which the education is clearly more the means to achieve a particular job in the future. They are (or at least were) an intense bunch.
Just a few thoughts.
First, I’m a pretty firm believer in the theory that you get out of college what you put into it…that a good, enthusiastic student with a willingness to work hard will get a fine education at just about any college, prestige, location, and overall quality of fellow students be damned. So I would second (third? fifth? ninth?) the idea that she should go wherever she feels most excited about–there aren’t any wrong answers.
For completeness’ sake, though, there is a thread going, or was recently, I haven’t looked very hard for it, where several people are saying that prestige IS important – that the 30th best school is notably more likely to give you a leg up than the 40th. I don’t really buy it, and it may have been more focused on grad schools than on undergrad, but that was the claim.
And where prestige goes, if that is indeed a factor, I don’t think there’s any comparison: Washington University is much more highly regarded. I don’t have any direct experience with either place, but I’ve been involved in education for years and have known folks who’ve attended each, and American just doesn’t have the same cachet or level of student. (And I live in the Northeast.) Not that I think this should be a deciding factor, but if prestige is to play a role–IMHO it’s not close.
I understand the greater internships/networking thing in a place like DC, but I wonder if that isn’t overblown. Lots of very strong students attend very well-respected colleges in the middle of nowhere–Middlebury, Carleton, Kenyon–or in small cities --Iowa City, Bloomington IN, Charlottesville–and they wind up getting good jobs after graduation, at least good enough that there’s a steady stream of applicants wanting to attend those schools.
But the bottom line remains–she sounds like somebody who would do well anywhere, and either school would be a fine decision. And if it doesn’t work out for whatever reason–well, you can always transfer.
BTW, re: u of Chicago–my son went there, and it was a terrific fit, and he loved it. He is very much into the whole life of the mind thing, but he also had a wonderful social life, made lots of friends, etc., etc. So it can happen, even in a place where “fun goes to die”!
I think she needs to tour both campuses, if she hasn’t already, and decide where she’s most comfortable. Are the schools similar size? I went to a prestigious school on the outskirts of a very large city and loved it; but one of my best friends went to a large mid-tier state university in the middle of nowhere and also loved it. We would have hated each others’ campus, I think.
If she’s motivated, she’ll be successful at either school. If she’s a slacker (and it sounds like she’s not) she can fail at either school. Once she’s in the working world, few people will care which school she went to. So I think you have to look at it as a no-lose decision and let her do what her gut tells her.