Help my kid pick a college, part 2

In My Humble Opinion
1

. . . with obvious reference to, and thank for all the replies in, this thread .

We’ve looked at, and fallen in various levels of love with, five schools:

James Madison College at MSU
Kalamazoo College
Kenyon College
Earlham College
Oberlin College

I’d like him to fall in love with the College of Wooster, but so far no dice. Just for fun, let’s throw it into the mix.

So, Dopers, of these six schools, which one should he pick? Let’s assume they all accept him. Tell me which one I should send him to, and why. Don’t hesitate to trash the others in defending your choice; it’s all grist for the mill, and we’re all friends here, right?

2

I would say of this list, Oberlin is by far the most prestigious and nationally known (I mean, everyone knows MSU exists but not as a particularly selective school and they might not know the special program). It attracts highly-qualified students from all over the country. I think it’s important to meet different kinds of people in college, and not just different in a Michigan way. If he can get in, I think he should go there.

I guess I would put JMC/MSU second. If you can’t have the most prestigious name, you should go for the best resources. I am not a huge fan of big schools, but obviously this offers a school-within-a-school atmosphere. Also, if money is a consideration, this rises to the top.

3

I went to Kenyon for two years, and then transferred to a school in New Jersey. So take this as you will.

There are many wonderful things about Kenyon. The campus is gorgeous, and the faculty is largely unparalleled, focused on teaching and discussion. People tend to make very close friendships, with other students and the professors. There’s a huge contingent of English majors. Most people go there to write. However, the Summer Science program is unparalleled in the mid-west university scene, and I took some amazing dance and political science classes while I was there. The creative writing class that I took didn’t live up to the hype, despite the fact that hundreds of students “audition” for about 16 slots.

Be quite aware that Kenyon is in the middle of nowhere, and it snows a LOT. My sophomore year, we were pretty much isolated the entire month of February from the rest of civilization. If you’re really serious about your studies, that’s not a problem. If you are 19 and in need of the outside world… well…

Kenyon is much more of a party school than it lets on to be. The main events most weekends are parties in South Campus. There are plenty of non-drinking events to go to, but they are pretty sparsely attended (even for a school of less than 1700 students), and end early. There are some great all-school events (Phling, Summer Send-off), but they are rare. I went during the 98-99 and 99-00 school years, so things may have changed, especially in light of the alcohol-related death of a freshman this past May.

There is very little diversity, which the school is trying to rectify. Small but vocal GLBT population, and the minority students mostly stick to each other.

So, I think Kenyon’s really a mixed bag. I enjoyed my freshman year a lot, but the isolation of location and lack of resouces really turned me away.

4

A good point but if you look at the list, this can be said equally to all the schools on the list, other than MSU. Oberlin is in the middle of f-ing nowhere. If Earlham isn’t the geographical center of nowhere, I don’t know what is*. Kalamazoo… well, it’s not exactly a bustling metropolis.

*Actually I do. It’s Grinnell, Iowa. have you considered Grinnell College?

5

OK. Earlham political science graduate checking in. It has been about 15 years since I graduated but I went back for a visit last year so I have some more recent impressions as well. I loved Earlham. It was a fantastic time for me and I highly recommended it.

Positives
Small size, intense friendships,

Top notch faculty who are there to teach and interact with students rather than do research

Earlham had a killer writing program for all first year students. You had to read a book every week and write a paper on it. It was excellent. I think that this program has since evolved but I’m sure the intensity and learning remains.

Excellent international programs and language departments.

Students took their class work very seriously. They were engaged and interested in the classes (for the most part).

Excellent prep for grad school. Earlham grads have an incredible success rate when applying to grad schools. Just off the top of my head I have friends who went on to grad/prof school at Berkeley, Stanford, Harvard, Cornell, Michigan

Very politically active (very progressive slant). Students and faculty really really care about the big issues and aren’t shy about it. They want to change the world and often do….the Peace and Global Studies major is particularly strong in this way. A lot of this is tied to its Quaker origins which give Earlham a nice social consciousness without being preachy….afterall these are Quakers we’re talking about.

Negatives
Richmond, IN is really nothing to write home about. This wasn’t such a big deal when I was a student since I mostly stayed on campus but damn, I don’t think I’d want to live there now.

Small college means limited number of faculty members (such as three main polsci faculty members)

Can get a bit claustrophobic.

No good sushi restaurants.

Things can get a bit insular…

Cost…it is a great school but it ain’t cheap.

And……all of the other schools (including Grinnell) are full of crack-smoking, half-witted, unattractive, idiots…. :slight_smile:

6

We had, but dismissed it as being too far away. After doing some more research, I talked the kid into applying, with a plan to visit if they come back with an attractive financial package.

We live in an inner-ring suburb of Detroit. The idea of being on an isolate campus somewhere, preferably in the middle of a primeval forest, really appeals to the kid. That’s one reason why Kenyon’s #1 on their list (that, and their Political Science program).

I’m not gonna tell him what Iowa looks like until we see how generous their endowment fund is.

7

On review . . . good lord, I wish I could type as fast as I think. For the record, it’s “isolated”, “on his list”. I’m shocked I got “primeval” right.

8

Its true Grinnell is in the middle of a cornfield… but it’s very cute. I almost went there myself. It’s not too far from Iowa City (about an hour), which has all sorts of Big Ten stuff if that is desired for a change of pace. It’s a good school. A little less prestigious than Oberlin, but probably comparable to Kenyon.

(PS - despite my location, I am in Ann Arbor for the summer, and I lived here for 7 years).

9

I’m going to Grinnell! I’m really excited about it.

10

CoW has a mandatory senior indepentent study project that translates into a fifth year for many people. They also have a bad habit of pulling all financial aid after year 4. Wooster is also not the height of civilization and the college is not well-liked by the town. The buildings are old, the faculty is not exactly cutting edge, top-of their field, but I have a science bias, so I am sure someone will come in and tell me how wrong I am. They have one small building for math and physics. Rubbermaid donated the remodelling of it and outfitted it with computers in the '90’s. Wooster does have Ohio Light Opera in the summers. The band has bagpipers and everyone marches in kilts. Most guys ‘go true’

Kenyon is a nice campus and I know that artist/writer types really like it. It seems to have a do your own thing vibe. Kenyon also seems to hit the news a little too frequently with deceased students for their size.

Oberlin is very historical. I don’t know anyone who went there. and don’t know much about it other than they play Wooster in sports.

Grinnell is very liberal, and I hear alot of fun. Has an active GLB scene.
I know nothing about the others.

All in all, Ghengis Kid should go someplace that the faculty in the field(s) of interest are somewhat known and respected in the field and that he feels that he could fit in. Also, we used to host HS seniors on campus to meet ‘normal’ (prescreened) students and just hang out to get a feel of the college more than the glossy brochures tell you. College is more about what you make of it than where it is on a map.

11

I lived in East Lansing through High school and for several years after college (although I didn’t attend MSU.) Great, great town. Lots of fun.

That said, I knew a lot of people who went to the James Madison college, They all loved it intensely, and *not a single one of them * found a rewarding career afterwards. One worked in a bookstore and for all I know is still there. Another gave up the job hunt and joined the Peace Corps (and he was a serious Republican, so you can guess how desperate he was.) Another became a receptionist. Granted, this was a few years back, so maybe things have changed, but based on that observation, I’d be leery of the James Madison school. More to the point, I’d avoid Polisci. But it sounds like you’re kid has already decided, so…

I went to a small Michigan college along the same lines as Kalamazoo. I had the opportunity to go to U of M, but opted for the small experience instead. Big, big mistake. Go for the college with the best reputation, it will help you endlessly in life. When I got serious about getting a career, it took me years to work up to the same level that graduates of a prestigious college like Oberlin or U of M can get immediately on graduation. The reputation attached to their degree lasts longer too - you can graduate from Harvard, spend ten years hiking through Botswana and living like a bum. Once you return to the US, shave and take a shower there are dozens of firms lining up to hire you, even if your degree is “Comparitive Religion of the tribes of New Guinea”. A degree from Kalamazoo, as cool as the college and the place is, will only get a blank stare from any potential employers outside of mid Michigan.

Your kid will do well at a school like MSU if he goes for one of the hard engineering or medical schools. He can also do well with one of MSU’s specialized degrees like “Agricultural Economics” (which MSU does better than anybody.) But if he’s going for Political Science, he can serve himself best by going to the most prestigious school that will let him in. Ten years from now, when he decides he’s sick and tired of Polisci and wants to pursue a career in economics, business, or the arts, he’s going to be very glad of this.

12

I guess I missed that MSU was on the list, I got confused by the name. I am a huge fan of state schools. Are they big? yes, but that is a good thing. I went to a state school and ended up majoring in a career I was not even aware existed when I went to college. Around 30 schools even teach it in the whole country. Most kids who go to school change their minds about what they want to do when they get there. At some schools, that means you have to change schools to change majors. I took lots of interesting classes from lots of different instructors with lots of different experiences and viewpoints. Big means that you can avoid bad profs and take from good ones. Big means that there are classes and activities on campus that aren’t offered on every campus. Big means lots of different students with lots of different backgrounds. Big also means less money, usually.
I have been to MSU once and didn’t see much of campus, but they do have a good program in my field and turn out good graduates. I liked my state school so much, that I went to another one for another degree and now work for a third one. If he goes to a state school, I can offer some great advice for navigating a large campus environment.

13

I had friends who went to both Grinnell and Oberlin.

Oberlin is very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very (breath) very very very very very very very very very very liberal. Just an FYI.
And the Drag Balls are an absolute blast. I’ve got pictures to prove it (though they probably shouldn’t go out in case I’m running for public office in the next century).
Oh and you have to give an A+ to any college that has bridge as an actual class.
My friend I’m sure would absolutely highly recommend it and the one or two times I’ve been there it’s seemed rather nice. Good coffee shops too.

Grinnell I’m also sure is a great college. Nice smalltown feel because…well…there’s absolutely no other way to feel. Go off the highway for ten miles in the middle of Iowa and the first buildings you see? Yeah, that’s Grinnell. My friend had a boyfriend in Des Moines so she could escape every other weekend to the big city. But, overall, I think she really liked her time there.

I couldn’t tell you squat about the academic benefits of either place except that my friends are reasonably smart and seemed to not turn into mindless mouthbreathers in their stay there. So take that for what you will.

14

Just to inject an alternative, how about trying for a Rhodes Scholarship (a la Clinton)? My brother read Physics at Oxford and had a wonderful time.

15

Prestige will matter later for him. Oberlin is easily the most prestigious. Assuming all other things are equal to you (a big assumption I know), pick Oberlin.

16

Hell, as long as we’re adding to the list . . .

I got home from work last night to find the kid looking at a Financial Aid brochure from Beloit. It seems they have lots and lots of money to give away in scholarships and such, many of which he’s qualified to at least compete for. Some of 'em are pretty damned generous.

So . . . Beloit? Any insights? They look small, liberal-artsy, etc. etc. I think in Princeton Review’s “Best of the Midwest”. I advised the kid to apply, then see what kind of financial aid package comes through before deciding whether to visit during his Senior Year.

17

Background: I went to a state school with a solid reputation (University of Iowa) for undergrad, and an Ivy for graduate school (Harvard).

First bit of advice: send the kid where he will have the least amount of debt coming out of school. If you’re paying, this isn’t a consideration, and lucky for him. But every kid I know who came out of school with any significant debt is struggling financially. My loans cost me twice as much as my rent every month. He will appreciate not having a huge bill to pay later.

Second bit of advice: more prestige is not always better. A school with a solid reputation and a good academic record is all you need to be competitive.

Third bit of advice: big state schools are great because the student can make what he or she wants to out of the experience. The student can pursue pretty much any interest and find any sort of social group s/he wants. Opportunities are not so plentiful at smaller schools.

18

It’s like you’re taking a tour sponsored by the Great Lakes College Association! (my friend used to work for the consortium offices here in Ann Arbor).

Is it possible for you to make visits during the school year, and possibly let your son stay the night? I think that’s a good way for a student to get a feel for a campus and figure out what makes similar-seeming colleges different.

I would agree that Oberlin and Kenyon probably pack the biggest punch in terms of name recognition. But overall fit, I think, is way more important.

19

Agreed with QN Jones on the state school. When he turns 20 and realizes he really wants to be an… say… elementary school art teacher, he won’t have to switch schools entirely. Also, I can imagine that extracurricular activities (school government, etc) will look much better on a resume than “I went to [insert prestigious school]”.

As for Beloit, my brother looked at it for school (early 90s) and said he felt the whole time like he was going to be shot any minute. I don’t remember exactly why (neighborhood, atmosphere, etc), but I can say that he did love the mascot.

20

Not true at all, sadly. You can only list activities and such in your first year or two out of college. After that, it starts to look pathetic.

However the name of your university will appear in the Education section of your resume for the rest of your life.

I’m still saying Oberlin by a mile, then Kenyon/Grinnell/MSU, whichever offers the best aid package. The private schools may offer a better overall aid package than MSU. They are very well endowed.

JMHO: any college that sends you that kind of materials is obviously either hurting for applicants or hoping against hope to attract someone vastly overqualified. Why else would they have to bribe you to apply? Think about it.