Yeah, rewatching the video she’s more aggressive than I recalled. It’s just I don’t buy into this women are as strong or as tough as men nonsense. In a real fight most of the time men have HUGE advantages over women. That’s not something to take lightly.
I just don’t think that a shattered face or potential brain damage is a good response to something that will at most give you a little scratch if she caught you with a nail. Obviously, opinions differ.
To which I agree
It is what you get when you attack someone much stronger than you.
Lesson is, don’t physically attack someone much stronger than you.
A lesson most men learn pretty early on.
Besides for all this, I disagree with the notion that people can only defend themselves if they’re facing the prospect of suffering permanent or long-lasting damage. Being slapped or hit is unpleasant enough at the time, and that’s enough justification for self-defense IMO.
Yeah, me either. She needs to learn that her actions were completely inappropriate. Not really crazy about what he did, though…
She should have been charged with assault. She spit at him, pushed him, and slapped him. That should be illegal. The law is for everyone, she should not have been given a break because she is white, female, and weak.
That’s not what I was implying; I should have been more specific. What I was saying is that based on the size differential between the two and amount of force applied by the young woman (gender is irrelevant here), his knockout punch was disproportional. The genders could have been switched and I would still come to the same conclusion. We can speculate if the school would have, but that is a different discussion.
My point was that she did not present by her actions such a danger that warranted the action of the player in my mind. Could she have? Sure; I agree with you there. But did she? No, I think this is where we will unavoidably disagree. Of course this would be third-hand speculation on both of our parts as the only one who could tell us if he felt his actions were warranted in the manner you’re describing is the player.
But where’s the line there? Without a line, shooting someone in the head is an appropriate response to them slapping you. Justifying it by saying “a violent reaction is a natural response” does not seem prudent to me.
Personally, I wouldn’t say that being slapped is not justification for self-defense but that being slapped is not justification for the amount of force used by the player. He certainly has a right to not be slapped and a right to defend that right (aka self-defense), but given the minimal potential for injury based on the woman’s reaction, the player’s reaction, with its high potential for injury, seems disproportional.
Both of them could likely benefit from a course in “anger management”.
Agreed.
Barring an actual threat of loss of life, I’d think that a good line would be “similar tactics”. She used her hand to strike him. He did the same. If he’d introduced a weapon, I’d say that he crossed the line.
Absolutely agreed. Gender is irrelevant. Size and the ability to do damage is more pertinent and even then it’s a mitigating factor, not an exculpatory one.
Also agreed, although I suspect the case would have been laughed out of the police station and never made it to court.
I don’t condone his response to being slapped but I understand it; there’s something about being hit in the face which seems to provoke an immediate, almost automatic response (and this applies whether you’re an athlete or a politician).
He shouldn’t have hit her but she shouldn’t have hit him either, and she certainly shouldn’t have persisted in picking a fight with an opponent so much bigger than her. If he’d hit her at first provocation I’d be calling for him to be locked up but she summoned him to her table, pushed him, potentially abused and spat on him and then slapped him before he retaliated with the punch. As it is (and assuming the facts of the case are as reported) a lesser punishment seems appropriate.
ISTM that just about any action taken by the player, other than just ignoring her and walking away, had a significant potential for injury (ETA: for the woman). That’s the nature of fighting in places with tile floors and sharp table edges. If he had pushed her, she could have fallen and busted her skull on the floor. If he had tried to restrain her, wrestling to get control of her limbs, she might have been injured as well. It would be better if no one resorted to physical violence, but that advice goes double for small, weak people to avoid initiating physical violence because they are very likely to come out on the losing end of the ensuing physical encounter.
Girls, don’t hit boys, this is why. Boys, don’t hit girls, this is also why.
In the larger sense, I agree that violence should be avoided if possible because of the many unintended consequences it can have. Unprovoked violence should especially be avoided as well as violence against someone who has a clear strength advantage and you don’t have a strategy to counter that. I would just tweak your last sentence to dissuade anyone of any gender from hitting anyone else of any gender.
This is also why we need to learn to have better control of our bodies and emotions, but that is a wildly different conversation.
So then what happens to her? I had always learned that if you initiate physical contact you are in the wrong.
That’s a separate issue. Yes, she assaulted him. He should have walked away or defended himself. He did neither, and instead retaliated. The retaliation is a separate act. She was wrong, and then he was. Nobody is defending her actions here.
They aren’t? Seems like it to me. For example, I’ve seen many state he should have had the restraint to walk away, but no indication that she should have exercised restraint in the first place.
As far as Humble Thinker’s question about appropriate response up to “getting shot in the head” and “where’s the line?” The best mindset for someone initiating any sort of violent encounter is understand there is no line. So many violent encounters in the news seem to start with one party thinking they can start something will a total stranger, even get physical, with only a mild response. People need to understand that getting shot in the face is a possibility, and behave appropriately.
Yet she is suing him and he suffered because of the incident (and I disagree, I think had he not hit her she would have kept on going so I believe he was defending himself). As far as I can tell, Molitor started the physical aspect of this and is getting all the sympathy and support in public even though it is her escalation that led to her getting her face smashed.
Additionally, sometimes reactions are hard to control. If he had stepped back, waited a bit and then knocked the shit out of her I would be more sympathetic to your view. However, the reaction was pretty instant. Reactions can be hard to control. Hell, I have a bad one in that if someone comes up and tickles me my first reaction is to throw a punch. This came about from being held down and tickled by my brother and his friends as a kid. I can control it but it is hard and usually by the time I stop reacting and start thinking my arm is cocked. I haven’t hit anyone yet but it has been close.
Slee
This poster is wise.