College football player hits a woman: The case of Joe Mixon

[billfish678]

@epbrown01

They aren’t? Seems like it to me. For example, I’ve seen many state he should have had the restraint to walk away, but no indication that she should have exercised restraint in the first place.

As far as Humble Thinker’s question about appropriate response up to “getting shot in the head” and “where’s the line?” The best mindset for someone initiating any sort of violent encounter is understand there is no line. So many violent encounters in the news seem to start with one party thinking they can start something will a total stranger, even get physical, with only a mild response. People need to understand that getting shot in the face is a possibility, and behave appropriately.

This.

If the legal/societal expectation of getting physical with someone else WAS…you might SERIOUSLY GET THE FUCKED UP IN RESPONSE AND SOCIETY AND THE LEGAL SYSTEM WON"T GIVE A SHIT…then maybe, just maybe there would actually be less fucking violence that shouldn’t have started in the first place.

Again, I due not fracking understand the idea that the crap head that MADE it physical in the first place is somehow LESS responsible than the person that may or MAY NOT have overeacted in response to ACTUAL physical violence.

[Nars_Glinley]

FWIW, Bob Stoops came out today and said that the punishment wasn’t enough and that their policies have changed. If it had happened today, Mixon would have been dismissed from the team.

[Human_Action]

@billfish678

This.

If the legal/societal expectation of getting physical with someone else WAS…you might SERIOUSLY GET THE FUCKED UP IN RESPONSE AND SOCIETY AND THE LEGAL SYSTEM WON"T GIVE A SHIT…then maybe, just maybe there would actually be less fucking violence that shouldn’t have started in the first place.

Again, I due not fracking understand the idea that the crap head that MADE it physical in the first place is somehow LESS responsible than the person that may or MAY NOT have overeacted in response to ACTUAL physical violence.

That is the expectation, if you’re the wrong kind of person. If this involved a young black man attacking another young black man and getting punched, it a) wouldn’t even be a story, and b) there would be zero people saying the second man needed to go to prison for ten years.

Here, though, there’s a collision between society’s role for women (emotional, fragile, child-like, in need of male supervision…we all remember where “hysteria” comes from, right?) and society’s role for black men (animalistic, violent, misogynistic). Thus, there’s roughly zero chance of this man getting a fair shake from the law, from his team, or from society at large for defending himself from an assault. The Supreme Court said that “Detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an uplifted knife" 95 years ago - but today, we’re demanding that this man either stand there and get assaulted, or somehow modulate his self-defense so that there’s no chance of his attacker striking her head on a table.

[Saint_Cad]

To those that said he should have defended himself, how else to do that besides what he did? If I were Bob Stoops or the Judge I would say, “If you initiate and argument with someone bigger then you and then push him then slap him then you deserve to have your smelly face broken in with one punch.”

[Saint_Cad]

@DrCube

That’s a separate issue. Yes, she assaulted him.

So did she have to go to court over it and now does she have a conviction on her record. If not then why does he?

[Snowboarder_Bo]

@octopus

I just don’t think that a shattered face or potential brain damage is a good response to something that will at most give you a little scratch if she caught you with a nail. Obviously, opinions differ.

@HumbleThinker

That’s not what I was implying; I should have been more specific. What I was saying is that based on the size differential between the two and amount of force applied by the young woman (gender is irrelevant here), his knockout punch was disproportional. The genders could have been switched and I would still come to the same conclusion. We can speculate if the school would have, but that is a different discussion.

My point was that she did not present by her actions such a danger that warranted the action of the player in my mind. Could she have? Sure; I agree with you there. But did she? No, I think this is where we will unavoidably disagree. Of course this would be third-hand speculation on both of our parts as the only one who could tell us if he felt his actions were warranted in the manner you’re describing is the player.

@Saint_Cad

To those that said he should have defended himself, how else to do that besides what he did? If I were Bob Stoops or the Judge I would say, “If you initiate and argument with someone bigger then you and then push him then slap him then you deserve to have your smelly face broken in with one punch.”

The bolded phrases are gross distortions of what occurred. There was no “knockout punch”. The punch that Mixon did throw did not shatter her face nor did the punch break her face. The punch knocked her down, true, but there is zero evidence that this punch was hard enough to shatter bones, and in mischaracterizing events the discussion is needlessly prejudiced, IMO.

[Chronos]

To those saying that someone as small as her wasn’t a threat to someone as big and strong as him: Yes, that’s true, and this incident is an illustration of why. She’s not a threat because, if he fights back, he can very quickly neutralize her. If, however, he does not neutralize her, she very well could have seriously hurt him.

To those saying that his response was disproportional: She made two unarmed attacks against him. He made one unarmed attack against her. His unarmed attack happened to be more damaging than both of hers combined, but that doesn’t mean that he was in the wrong, it means that she was stupid to attack someone so much stronger than her.

Was his response optimal? Probably not. He probably did have options available to him that would have led to better results for everyone involved. But while his response was not optimal, it was rational given the situation. There is no expectation that, while being attacked, he should analyze all of his possible responses and their various direct and indirect consequences. Reacting quickly is better than reacting optimally.

[billfish678]

Physically responding with a moment of violence with just a moment to think about it (AND disregarding such niceties as society and justice) is probably just as, if NOT MORE ingrained in the average human as the desire to fuck.

IMO expecting this young man to respond AT THAT MOMENT with anything more sophisticated morally/socially/legally than one else could express without any more forewarning than the time frame/sophistication you get in the when reading a few words is just a bunch of back seat quarterbacking.

I wonder how may here would respond if somebody flung a snake or spider onto them. Any RATIONAL person would just examine said specimen calmly and rightly (statistically speaking) “yep, no danger…of course I knew that…”

[billfish678]

@Human_Action

That is the expectation, if you’re the wrong kind of person. If this involved a young black man attacking another young black man and getting punched, it a) wouldn’t even be a story, and b) there would be zero people saying the second man needed to go to prison for ten years.

Here, though, there’s a collision between society’s role for women (emotional, fragile, child-like, in need of male supervision…we all remember where “hysteria” comes from, right?) and society’s role for black men (animalistic, violent, misogynistic). Thus, there’s roughly zero chance of this man getting a fair shake from the law, from his team, or from society at large for defending himself from an assault. The Supreme Court said that “Detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an uplifted knife" 95 years ago - but today, we’re demanding that this man either stand there and get assaulted, or somehow modulate his self-defense so that there’s no chance of his attacker striking her head on a table.

Yes, and I think thats a damn fricking shame.

[Leaffan]

I don’t know if any of you have seen Halloween pranks where someone pops out of an enclosure by surprise, or if a seemingly stuffed scarecrow comes to life, etc. But there are quite a few instances where the surprised individual punches the prankster right in the face in, presumably, a reflex reaction.

If I was the defense lawyer, I’d be pulling these from YouTube and showing them to the court.

[billfish678]

Good point Leaffan!

[drad_dog]

@Fotheringay-Phipps

Hard to know how often, but it happens. Here’s a current story as an example.

But the point is that smaller men very rarely if ever attack bigger college-football player types. Women do, and what emboldens them is the societal attitude that they can’t be harmed even in such situations.

So you see a world where women are emboldened to hit football players capriciously? And the problem in society is that we let them get away with it?

Wow.

Ever think women have to stand up for themselves sometimes even when they are smaller and weaker than someone else?

I can’t see a physical pushback without a lot of insult and disrespect at least to instigate it.

What’s the story on why he came into the room? What kind of self defense move is that? Who started the verbal interaction outside?

Did she just call him the n word without provocation and then he improvised the part about the friend being a “fag” in response?

[Leaffan]

There must be a thousand of these. People react instinctively.

Any good defense lawyer would use these.

I’m not condoning the punch, but sometimes humans just react without thinking.

[drad_dog]

@billfish678

Physically responding with a moment of violence with just a moment to think about it (AND disregarding such niceties as society and justice) is probably just as, if NOT MORE ingrained in the average human as the desire to fuck.

IMO expecting this young man to respond AT THAT MOMENT with anything more sophisticated morally/socially/legally than one else could express without any more forewarning than the time frame/sophistication you get in the when reading a few words is just a bunch of back seat quarterbacking.

I wonder how may here would respond if somebody flung a snake or spider onto them. Any RATIONAL person would just examine said specimen calmly and rightly (statistically speaking) “yep, no danger…of course I knew that…”

I don’t know. I saw a choice being made. I didn’t see that as what you do in that situation. He swatted her down. If he was threatened (for instance by a larger male) he would have looked more defensive, IMO.

[Snowboarder_Bo]

@drad_dog

So you see a world where women are emboldened to hit football players capriciously? And the problem in society is that we let them get away with it?

Wow.

Ever think women have to stand up for themselves sometimes even when they are smaller and weaker than someone else?

I can’t see a physical pushback without a lot of insult and disrespect at least to instigate it.

What’s the story on why he came into the room? What kind of self defense move is that? Who started the verbal interaction outside?

Did she just call him the n word without provocation and then he improvised the part about the friend being a “fag” in response?

If the facts show that she started the verbal altercation outside, what would your opinion of his actions be? :dubious:

[Disgruntled_Penguin]

@drad_dog

So you see a world where women are emboldened to hit football players capriciously? And the problem in society is that we let them get away with it?

Wow.

Ever think women have to stand up for themselves sometimes even when they are smaller and weaker than someone else?

I can’t see a physical pushback without a lot of insult and disrespect at least to instigate it.

What’s the story on why he came into the room? What kind of self defense move is that? Who started the verbal interaction outside?

Did she just call him the n word without provocation and then he improvised the part about the friend being a “fag” in response?

Here is the article I just read on the story. Honestly I wanted to be outraged by this and seeing the video I was but on reading this story I’m on his side.

http://newsok.com/article/5531466

She didn’t call him a slur, the man sitting with her did. He did not expect to be hit hard enough to be stunned and he didn’t just have to worry about a weak woman he is engaged in an argument with her but her ( who had escalated the scenario into violence ) and a grown ass man and he has no idea what that guy’s going to do. Maybe his football playing teammates could have broken things up but maybe he’d be jumped or worse before they could save him.

I am not pro hitting someone weaker than you but when they gang up, even verbally, when the violence starts against you the calculus isn’t merely big man against small woman; it’s man against gang and you absolutely have the right to defend yourself in that case.

Now, I know I’m going to burn in hell for this but

In the video, Freudiger told Mixon and the attorneys that Molitor’s version of events is that Mixon and some of his teammates begin harassing Molitor and her friend because the friend is gay, and they go into Pickleman’s to evade the situation.

I actually believe her that this happens but when someone is being homophobic against you, going into a place called Pickleman’s isn’t going to end well.

[drad_dog]

@Snowboarder_Bo

If the facts show that she started the verbal altercation outside, what would your opinion of his actions be? :dubious:

I would not be sympathetic to her. But he followed them in and got up close enough to take a slap. Knocking her down wasn’t cool. He left the scene too. Isn’t that a legal consequence gesture?

I don’t have a problem with women’s license to slap under some circumstances. They are often weaker and smaller. I don’t see it as a double standard.

If you’re a scholarship athlete and big man on campus you should probably learn to walk away from some things. You’re representing the school.

[asahi]

I am basing my comments on one video with no sound and thus no background.

But to me it looks like she initiated not only the physical contact but the entire episode. The fact that she is a smaller individual is immaterial in the eyes of the law. I stand 6’2" and weigh about 180 pounds. A person who’s smaller can still hurt me if he or she scratches me in the eyes with her fingernails. I’m not saying he reacted responsibly – he simply reacted. He reacted immaturely, in real time. It happens. It’s not like he cornered her in an elevator and slapped her around. Men shouldn’t strike women but women don’t get a free pass in striking men either. There are consequences for escalating a confrontation.

[billfish678]

@drad_dog

I don’t have a problem with women’s license to slap under some circumstances. They are often weaker and smaller. I don’t see it as a double standard. l.

Wha wha whatttt?

So, if I am a fraction of your size…can I kick you in the nuts?

[octopus]

@Snowboarder_Bo

The bolded phrases are gross distortions of what occurred. There was no “knockout punch”. The punch that Mixon did throw did not shatter her face nor did the punch break her face. The punch knocked her down, true, but there is zero evidence that this punch was hard enough to shatter bones, and in mischaracterizing events the discussion is needlessly prejudiced, IMO.

Wrong.

Deadspin | Woman Punched By Joe Mixon: "Almost Immediately, I Was Made To...

Amelia Molitor was just another college student at Oklahoma—until Sooners running back Joe Mixon punched her in the face at sub shop Pickleman’s Gourmet Café*, fracturing multiple bones in her face and requiring surgery that left her jaw wired shut. Afterward, she told the Oklahoman that she worried about retaliation from fans.

“That’s my big fear (the fans),” Molitor said at the time. “I’ve been told to stay off of social media to avoid (OU fans) coming after me on there.”

Nearly two years later, Molitor talked to the paper again and gave an interview that largely proves her own fears came true. She deleted her Twitter and Facebook accounts. A mug shot from a previous misdemeanor drug arrest got passed around the Internet, while Mixon’s lawyer tried to turn her past into proof that she was was “troubled.” When she returned to campus, she heard people snickering at her. At her bartending job, a patron leaned over and asked her, “How’s Joe doing?”

In the interview, Molitor details her physical recovery. She needed an eight-hour surgery that left her looking “like Cyclops for a few weeks.” She lost feeling on the left side of her face for six months and was on a liquid diet. But all that was manageable, she said, compared to the emotional pain.

Underlined for emphasis.
And there is no license to slap, drad dog. Sorry.