College football player hits a woman: The case of Joe Mixon

[sleestak]

@marshmallow

So if your wife or girlfriend slaps you across cross the face you punch her? That would be “understandable” and “textbook self defense” in your view?

If my wife slapped me, me throwing a punch back is a possibility depending on how surprised I was by the slap (though if she slapped me divorce would likely be in our future. Physical violence isn’t acceptable, period) The point that you seem to not want to get is that the punch was a reaction. Sometimes reactions happen before you can think about it. As someone else pointed out, there are countless videos on the internet of people ‘surprising’ people by popping out of unexpected places getting punched. The puncher, in those cases, would certainly not throw the punch after a minute of sober reflection. However, that isn’t the case in those videos and that isn’t the case in this situation. When you are being attacked sober reflection isn’t high on the priority list.

She attacked, he stopped the attack and walked away.

Slee

[billfish678]

@sleestak

If my wife slapped me, me throwing a punch back is a possibility depending on how surprised I was by the slap (though if she slapped me divorce would likely be in our future. Physical violence isn’t acceptable, period)
Slee

One thing else to consider.

If the person that slaps /shoves/gets physical with you is somebody you know, that’s a whole nother kettle of fish than some random stranger getting physical.

The wife/husband/boyfriend/girlfriend probably has a fairly good idea whether that slap will stop at a slap. If my neighbor, who I’ve known for years, gets a little shovey because we have a fight about streetside parking, I’m pretty sure it ain’t a prelude to a cap in the ass.

Some RANDOM stranger gets physical?

Who knows WHAT the fuck they will do next?

[HurricaneDitka]

@Miller

George Zimmerman reports a different judicial outcome.

Is it your opinion that George Zimmerman was not under assault when he shot Martin?

[Saint_Cad]

So from the Molitor supporter the rationale is that if you don’t think you’re going to hurt someone you are free to shove and slap them? And again, why did he get charged with assault and she didn’t for intitiating the physical confrontation not once but twice?

[Calico_Jack]

@Saint_Cad

So from the Molitor supporter the rationale is that if you don’t think you’re going to hurt someone you are free to shove and slap them? And again, why did he get charged with assault and she didn’t for intitiating the physical confrontation not once but twice?

No clue, fact is though it’s not legal self-defense to retailate with more force than necessary to end the assault.

So even if she should’ve been charged, that doesn’t mean he shouldn’t have. And if people here are saying that retaliating to a shove or a slap with a haymaker is justified ‘self defense’ then anyone following their advice in the real world will likely end up with a felony charge.

[Snowboarder_Bo]

@Calico_Jack

No clue, fact is though it’s not legal self-defense to retailate with more force than necessary to end the assault.

Cite?

ETA: And you still haven’t shown that Mr. Mixon did anything other than use enough force to end the assault.

[Calico_Jack]

@Snowboarder_Bo

Cite?

ETA: And you still haven’t shown that Mr. Mixon did anything other than use enough force to end the assault.

The difference between fighting and self-defense

[Human_Action]

@Snowboarder_Bo

Cite?

I linked to the actual Oklahoma statute earlier:

To use or to attempt to offer to use force or violence upon or toward the person of another is not unlawful in the following cases:

…

3. When committed either by the person about to be injured, or by any other person in such person’s aid or defense, in preventing or attempting to prevent an offense against such person, or any trespass or other unlawful interference with real or personal property in such person’s lawful possession; provided the force or violence used is not more than sufficient to prevent such offense;

If I were on the jury, I’d have found Mixon not guilty, as to my mind a single punch isn’t “more than sufficient” to prevent an assault. But, seeing as how Mixon was a black man charged with punching a pretty blond girl, in Oklahoma, I sure can’t blame him for taking the Alford plea. People were once lynched for far less.

[Snowboarder_Bo]

@Calico_Jack

The difference between fighting and self-defense

THat’s one of the worst cites to back up a claim about legality that I’ve ever seen. Nowhere does it mention what the laws are in Oklahoma; that was worthless.

At any rate, you still haven’t shown that Mr. Mixon used excessive force or that he was, as you continually have asserted, retaliating.

[Snowboarder_Bo]

@Human_Action

I linked to the actual Oklahoma statute earlier:

To use or to attempt to offer to use force or violence upon or toward the person of another is not unlawful in the following cases:

…

3. When committed either by the person about to be injured, or by any other person in such person’s aid or defense, in preventing or attempting to prevent an offense against such person, or any trespass or other unlawful interference with real or personal property in such person’s lawful possession; provided the force or violence used is not more than sufficient to prevent such offense;

If I were on the jury, I’d have found Mixon not guilty, as to my mind a single punch isn’t “more than sufficient” to prevent an assault. But, seeing as how Mixon was a black man charged with punching a pretty blond girl, in Oklahoma, I sure can’t blame him for taking the Alford plea. People were once lynched for far less.

Thanks for some factual information; it’s appreciated.

I agree that nothing in the video shows Mr. Mixon doing anything egregious. He ended the assault and walked away.

[Nars_Glinley]

@Saint_Cad

So from the Molitor supporter the rationale is that if you don’t think you’re going to hurt someone you are free to shove and slap them? And again, why did he get charged with assault and she didn’t for intitiating the physical confrontation not once but twice?

IIRC, the DA was going to charge both but Mixon was going to be charged with a felony. As a part of reducing Mixon’s charges, they dropped the misdemeanor charge against Molitor.

[Snowboarder_Bo]

@Nars_Glinley

IIRC, the DA was going to charge both but Mixon was going to be charged with a felony. As a part of reducing Mixon’s charges, they dropped the misdemeanor charge against Molitor.

I have been unable to find anything to corroborate this, but I did find a bit more info on the plea deal at [Mimesis Law:

Mixon was subsequently charged criminally with an Assault and Battery on Molitor, but did not elect to fight the charges after the prosecutor offered a year deferred adjudication, 100 hours of community service, and cognitive behavior counseling. That meant that after Mixon completed the year probation, he would be found not guilty of the charge. It’s a good deal, and Mixon took it by making an Alford plea.

This was a good deal for Mixon. It spared him the risk of going to a jury and being found guilty, and it allowed him to maintain that he did nothing wrong for the almost certain to ensue civil lawsuit. You see, under Oklahoma law, Mixon has the opportunity to assert that he was defending himself. In Oklahoma, there is no duty for a person to retreat before defending themselves and hasn’t been since 1912, at least.

](mimesislaw.com)
In the footnotes for the article is this:

“The law in Oklahoma is clear: There is no duty to retreat if one is threatened with bodily harm. Fowler v. State, 8 Okl.Cr. 130, 126 P. 831 (1912).” Neal v. State, 597 P.2d 334 (Okla. Crim. App., 1979).

[Nars_Glinley]

Mixon wasn’t charged with assault and battery. He was charged with “acts resulting in gross injury”.

Mixon%20charges.pdf

As for Molitor’s “charges”, I can’t corroborate it either. I heard it on talk radio so take that FWIW.

[Saint_Cad]

Mixon now claims there were racial slurs involved. I wonder how many Molitor supporters will back down if she called him a nigger. Their argument is already borderline that he should not have defended himself from being shoved and slapped.

[Snowboarder_Bo]

@Saint_Cad

Mixon now claims there were racial slurs involved. I wonder how many Molitor supporters will back down if she called him a nigger. Their argument is already borderline that he should not have defended himself from being shoved and slapped.

AFAIK Mr. Mixon as always claimed that there was a racial slur involved. He also has always admitted to calling Miss Molitor’s friend a fag.

[Johanna]

It reminds me of this scene.
(I couldn’t find a clip in English, but visually it’s almost self-explanatory)

Judge: Counselors will please approach the bench. Fabian, turn around and look at the plaintiff and defendant. Will the plaintiff and defendant please stand up.
(Giant plaintiff vs. tiny defendant)
Fabian, get the fuck out of my court.

My point was that the commonsense principle illustrated in that scene works without any consideration of gender, and applies to different-gender cases as well as to same-gender cases.

[DKW]

Ahem…if I may be the voice of reason here ("…for a change!" :D)

Watched the video. While it’s missing some important context (particularly what Mixon was doing before he entered the frame and exactly who said exactly what), I have to say it’s does not paint Molitor in a good light. In particular, what she did was stone cold, Grade A, full burner, 10/10 stupid. If you are small and weak, you do not freaking hit and spit on someone a lot bigger and stronger than you, and absolutely not a football player, a profession that isn’t exactly a shining bastion of chivalry (the name Ray Rice mean anything to you?). I don’t care if he called your parents, your high school buddies, and your favorite sitcom actor fags. There are ways to get back at a bigoted twit that do not involve risking a trip to the intensive care ward. And as a general principle, it’s simply a bad idea to be aggressively confrontational, because at some point you’ll encounter someone who takes no crap and has the power to hurt you badly. Maybe not today, maybe not a week from now, maybe not a year from now, but sooner or later you will get smacked down hard.

That said, let’s not forget that Mixon started it by calling Molitor’s friend a fag. I mean, why even do this? Homophobia isn’t cool and hasn’t been for years. That ship sailed, move on. Who gives a crap what some random college football player thinks about homosexuality, anyway? So Molitor takes exception, even going so far as to beckon him over. Now, if you say the wrong thing and someone confronts you about it, and the situation has the potential to get ugly in a big, big hurry, what do you do? DENY. “Oh, it wasn’t me, I think it was someone from table over there.” “Oh, I was singing aloud, this song from some punk rock band, nothing to do with your friend.” “Oh, I just said ‘Whoa, I’m really fagged’. You know, tired? Sorry for the misunderstanding.” And then you go back to what you were doing and shut your goddam mouth, and that’s the end of it.

As it was, Mixon did nothing to deescalate the situation, and Molitor got physical, and then the punch connected. First off, I think Mixon was very lucky he didn’t break something in his hand; the head is just about the worst possible place to aim an unprotected fist. The blow itself didn’t do a great deal of damage, but when her head hit the edge of a table on the way down, the harm was serious enough that she had to be hospitalized. If she started it, he could plead heat of the moment, it all happened so fast, my body just reacted, etc., and while that wouldn’t completely justify cold-cocking her, his reputation wouldn’t be seriously harmed and the university might even be able to get behind him (somewhat). But he started it, he knew damn well why she was so upset, and therefore he absolutely had the responsibility to make sure that his use of force was not excessive.

Molitor’s idiocy does not justify Mixon’s horrendous judgment. Based on what I know, Mixon is definitely more at fault, but neither side comes across smelling like a rose. And there’s nothing wrong with that. Real life very rarely has clear-cut good guys and bad guys. Both sides being guilty to some extent not only is possible, but a pretty common occurrence.

IMO the punishment is a little light, but I’m not going to argue with it. He did seem genuinely remorseful, and I just hope that he’s been humbled by the experience and learned to keep his goddam stupid worthless disgusting opinions to himself.

[Snowboarder_Bo]

@DKW

That said, let’s not forget that Mixon started it by calling Molitor’s friend a fag. I mean, why even do this?

Do you have a cite for this timeline of events? Because it’s contradicted by what Mixon told police back in 2014:[

Mixon, flanked by two attorneys and his mother, recounts in the video how Amelia Molitor’s gay friend called him the ‘N-word’ and the football player responded in kind, insulting his sexual orientation.

](University of Oklahoma football star Joe Mixon who punched woman defends himself | Daily Mail Online)Also, he says that she started the whole thing outside, not him.

But according to Mixon’s version of events, Molitor intentionally blew smoke in his face outside the eatery, and only then went inside telling his teammate David Smith that Mixon was ‘trying to jump her.’

Mixon says he then followed the woman inside, telling her that he had no problem with her, and that she was being disrespectful ‘and acting crazy.’

Mixon then turned to leave, but at the moment he exchanged words with Molitor’s friend, after which he and the woman came to blows, as seen in the recently released CCTV video.

[iceiso]

Regarding the self defense vs retaliation, David vs Goliath, debates, I’m siding with self defense.

It’s not like Molitor pushed Mixon then walked away, or someone was already restraining her when he punched her, or she was throwing stuff at him from across the restaurant and he could have just exited through the door. If one of those were the cases, I would agree that he could/should have walked away.

However, we have no way of knowing how far Molitor would have escalated her physical attacks. She initiated contact with a push, spitting, then a slap. What would have come next; gouging of the eye-balls, a kick to the pants-balls, would her friend have joined in? Therefore, my view is that Mixon’s strike was a defense against future escalation.

[BigAppleBucky]

What would the upshot have been if Mixon was a cop who simply shot and killed Molitor “in fear for his life”? Also a disproportionate response.