Ok I looked through the archives and can’t find a definative answer.
Last night my brother in law (my sisters husband) tells me that he is thinking about going back to college. Durring the course of our conversation I find out that he is planning on not telling the college that he is applying to about his previous attendance at another school. I told him that he better disclose that information but he insist that they will not be able to dig up his old school records. I told him about my other brother in law’s (wife’s sisters husband) experience in which he didn’t disclose his previous school exprience and got caught. Now to be honest I don’t know for sure all of the circumstances behind BIL#2 being caught but surely the university can find BIL#1’s old college records can’t they?
Joey G I tried to tell him that some schools would let you start over. Granted I don’t know about this school but I think he last attended in 95 or 96 I am not really sure. I do know that he went to school for two years. To be honest I don’t particularly care for BIL#1, and at this point I am more interested in finding out if the school can find his old transcript so that when he goes through with this boneheaded idea and he gets his ass in a sling I can say “I told you so you dumbass”. Juvenile I know but I can’t stand him. Oh and don’t anybody suggest that I call the school and rat him out because even though I don’t like him I wouldn’t screw him (ok really my sister and the kids) like that.
nswgru1, this previous thread on the subject might be useful (see my answer, the second in the thread). My short answer: there’s a decent (though certainly not definite) chance he’d get caught. If it’s before his acceptance he’d be rejected; if it’s after he’s been accepted, he’ll be expelled. And then he’ll have an expulsion on his record for fraud, which is certainly going to hurt his academic future more than a low GPA at another school. I’ve personally presided over at least a few of these cases, and they were all expelled.
Tell your brother-in-law (again) not to do that. There are a million ways that he could be caught, especially if he has received or is receiving financial aid.
Universities risk their accreditation by admitting unqualified students so they take this stuff very seriously. I work for a university at the graduate level and we use a company called Proudfoot to investigate the educational background of our students. We won’t except an application that’s missing information. If someone somehow slip through the cracks and the university later finds out that they withheld information, they’ll be expelled. Try explaining that to a possible future employer. I know lots of HR departments use Proudfoot too and all that stuff shows up. Not a good scene.
I realize I just basically repeated what peepthis said. Sorry about that.
Here is a link to Proudfoot that I mentioned earlier. Notice that they mention that 37% of employees have falsified their educational experience.
It’s a very big deal. If even after your brother-in-law has graduated and the University finds out, they’ll rescind his degree and he’ll most likely be fired from his job or have serious trouble getting one.
Here’s a scenario:
An future employer does a background check on your brother-in-law and sees that he attended the 1st university that he didn’t tell the 2nd university about. But the 1st university isn’t listed on the 2nd university’s transcript as a previously attended institution. The employer then calls the 2nd institution to see what’s up and the 2nd institution says that they have no record of that institution ever having been attended. And it all goes seriously downhill from there. Believe me, this stuff happens all the time.
Thankyou Candlemas this is the kind of information I am looking for.
Thankyou also peepthis I read that thread. I was particularly interested in what Shoshana had said at the last of her post. I started questioning my own thoughts about the subject and was about to be dissapointed to have to resign myself that BIL might be right. I did notice that you are in Oxford UK so I wonder if that has any bearing on things here in the U.S.
Candlemas I am going to try to talk to him again about this and if it sounds like I am a little desperate for info that is because I am. He is planning on sending in his application for admitance in a few days so I need all the info I can gather as soon as possible. He is a real jerk who thinks he knows it all so any info you can give me about how the system works would be helpful. I know Mr Jerkoff isn’t going to accept well I posted it on a message board and here is what people said, so what can you tell me about Proudfoot? I know he isn’t going to be applying for financial aid or anything. In fact he is planing on starting off by taking courses through something that is kind of like corespondence.
peepthis again thankyou for your response and I was hoping the Doobieous would see this thread and respond.
Candlemas any info you can give me about what proceedures are taken when checking out new prospective students would be very helpful and greatly appreciated.
Candlemas I saw your second post after I submited mine. I looked on Proudfoot and all they say is attendance verification for prospective employers. I know you have set up a viable scenario about prospective employers finding out but still the question remains I guess. Is there some kind of national database or something? For the life of me I can’t come up with a way that the school in question or anybody for that matter could find that he went to any other school than the one he is applying to unless they had some kind of a clue that he went to school in the first place.
The National Student Loan Clearinghouse is one such nationwide database. Participant schools report all students enrolled at their school, for purposes of student loan deferrments and such. The NSLC also provides degree verification services for schools and employers. It wouldn’t be too difficult for a school to check with the NSLC for prior enrollment at another school (note that the student need not have actually taken out a loan, as all enrolled students are reported). See their EnrollmentSearch service, for example.
Yeah, I did notice that. Just what are they considering falsification of educational experience? Seems to me that checking up on a prospective employees’ educational histories would be so easy to do that only an idiot would falsify that. Are 37% of the population idiots? Or is Proudfoot fudging its numbers? Or what? Skeptical, I am.
Thanks Darwin’s Finch that is exactly the kind of information I was looking for. Now if I could just get somebody on the inside to give me the scoop. Hopefully Shoshana or Doobious will come by and enlighten us all.
By the way I just called the prick on the phone and told him about what has been said so far and his response was “well I went to XXXX Jr College before I went to XXXX University and I didn’t tell them about that and they never brought it up”. The only thing I could say was “well they didn’t have the internet then did they”.:smack: Shit sometimes I wonder why I even put myself through all the trouble.
nswgru, I’m an American, and I went to school (as I mentioned in the thread I linked to) that I attended a “large East Coast university.” I presided over the student judicial board there, and – as I wrote above – sat on at least a few cases of people falsifying their academic background. I’d never known exactly how these people were caught, since the university folks always told me just that “they had their ways,” but now I’m convinced it was via some company like Proudfoot.
I graduated just a couple years ago, so this is how it’s done these days in the States.
Let me clarify, since the previous thread referenced above was about courses taken for pleasure. I don’t work in the Admissions Office, so I don’t know what they do to check up on people. It may be different if the person was matriculated at the previous school. When people take a course or two for pleasure, they pay directly; student loans might create a paper trail when a person is enrolled half time or more. Since student loans are dependent on Selective Service registration status, I’d assume there was a regularly-accessed database that Admissions would check, and if you had prior loans, that you’d be in it.
If I were to discover that a student had been enrolled half time or more at another school and had not disclosed this on application, I would be obliged to bring this to my chair or department head.
I don’t know if 37% of the population are idiots, but I can say that many employers are lazy.
Depending on industry, you may just be trusted based on your references. I’ve known at least one mid-level executive with FANTASTIC experience and references who is at least slightly deceptive on his resume… when I mentioned it to him he explained that at his level, those checks never seem to get done.
And we don’t know if the 37% is a sampling across all industries or just some…
