collinsc, you have revealed your deficiencies. Allow me to assist you.

The BBQ Pit
1

First, you should know that you are in a rareified group; I am not a “pitter” of my fellow dopers. Only done it once in nearly 5 years, in fact, and that was a very special and particular circumstance.

The reason we are here today is to discuss your poorly disguised bigotry and your dishonesty, on display here.

I want you to know that I gave you the benefit of the doubt, even though I knew as surely as I know the contours of my fleshy thighs, that when you said “Forgive me if this is insulting…” your absolute intention was to insult, to be rude, and to display your negative judgment of me and of fat people in general. The statement that followed was unnecessary, and, as i showed you, untrue. But as I say, I was willing to accept that you were simply being clumsy in your expression, not to mention your ignorance.

But in the end, you could not help yourself, could you? Your need to let me and everyone else know just how awful and unacceptable you find fat people just had to be answered, like a cry in the night from a cranky baby.

This explains your completely unnecessary, totally gratuitous, and, in the end, rather pathetic attempt to “strike back” at the blow that your own bigotry had been dealt when you learned about the feats of Mr. Alexander.

The feeble excuse most often trotted out these days from fat bigots is that fat is disgusting, unacceptable and worthy of contempt because of what it (supposedly) says about the fat person: they are lazy, they don’t take care of themselves, they have no self-worth, self-control, drive, ad nauseum. Therefore it’s ok to hate them, judge them, and speak ill of them. I know that this is a steaming pile of horseshit, but there it is. Generally, it’s not worth arguing the point.

But in this case, I just can’t let it slip by unremarked upon. You were being a jerk, and you have no defense. You obviously find fat disgusting, and evidently welcome the opportunity to express that disgust, no matter how inappropriate it may be in a given time and place (and I think this thread qualifies as the least appropriate thread possible in which to spew about how disgusting fat people are.) If you were bitched out for this bigotry in any other circumstance, I’m betting good money that you’d trot out the excuses I just gave. But this time, you couldn’t. Your frustration was almost palpable and resulted in the icky little vomit above.

What a sorry shmuck you are. My sympathies on how badly it must suck to be you.

2

Yeah, collinsc is an asshole.

And the “fat triathelete” guy isn’t disgustingly obese. He just looks like a big guy, that’s all. Nothing disgusting about him.

3

You know, you’re exactly right. I am a “fat bigot”. In fact, you pointed out exactly what runs through my head when I consider obesity:

However,

You asked, I answered.

Again, you’re right, I do find fat disgusting. If someone wants to ask me how I feel about it, I will tell them. You asked, I answered.

Would I not be in the pit if I had left out “disgustingly”? I guess I should have, since, as Stoid so clearly pointed out, I find that word redundant anyway.

You asked, looking for support, if you, as a 5’ 8" 300lb woman, can be considered an athlete.
We don’t need to discuss my fitness here (though we certainly can, if you like) but I never have to ask that question.

Does that suck?

4

“Fat bigot”?

Jesus fucking Christ.

5

Goering was a fat bigot.

6

Do you object to the word “bigot” as I’ve used it here?

Bigot: one obstinately and blindly devoted to his own church, party, belief, or opinion.

collins is quite the bigot when it comes to his opinion of fat and fat people, that’s quite clear. He’s acknowledged it.

And as it is commonly understood, when one is bigotted against another, it means that they form an opinion of a person based on a superficial characteristic of that person. Fits like a glove here.

As much as you’d like to think that any mention of weight in any context is an invitaton for you to spew your ignorant opinion of fatness in general, * and to do so as offensively as you think you can get away with, because you delight in being rude to people * it is not.

Nope. You are not being pitted for your feelings or beliefs. You are being pitted for feeling the need to express them, rudely, inappropriately, and jerkishly. You can hold all the assinine opinions you like. Just keep them to yourself. Or, if you find you simply lack the self-control to keep your mouth shut, try being tactful and decent. Think of it as a sort of “personal decency diet” and challenge yourself to see how long you can stay on it.

7

I have to defend ** collinsc ** here - that guy did look digustingly fat. At least to me anyways.

8

I am impressed by your athletic abilities, but I would like to know a few things:
Are you losing weight?

What is your daily caloric intake?

What is the percent breakdown protein/carbohydrates/fat?

What does your diet consist of?

Why do you think Dave Alexander stays fat?

I am not entirely on your side here. collinsc is a bit blunt, but you seem a tad overapologetic for obesity. I just want some information.

9

Your questions are completely irrelevant to any point I have made, which you seem to be missing.

collinsc was unnecessarily and gratuitously rude. I pointed it out. End.

10

I would swear to anyone that would listen that I don’t have a problem with fat people, or fat itself. I do have a problem with bad science.

There is no doubt that collinsc was being an asshole in that thread. I would however, take much convincing that the mechanics of weight gain defy the laws of science as so many overweight people seem to claim. I have the same contempt for people who swear to the efficacy of astrology, herbal supplements and necromancy.

We know that you will gain weight if you consume more calories than you burn on a regular basis. The amount of calories you burn varies considerably from person to person, but the basic principle is unchanging. I attach no value judgement to how much you choose to eat over and above what you can burn in a day. I do attach a value judgement to making unsubstantiated scientific claims.

On this board we would never let a person claim that astrology works without requiring extraordinary proof. There are many people here however, that will allow the laws of science to be suspended so as not to offend those who are overweight. Collinsc has no excuse for his behavior, but Stoid would have to work pretty hard to convince me that, outside of rare medical conditions, fat is unrelated to calorie consumption.

11

Except that, ** fruitbat, ** stoid is not attempting to convince you of a single thing related to fatness and why it exists, except this: it is unacceptable to jump on every and any opportunity you find to declare how disgusting you find fat people to be. Period. That is why we are here, that is all that I am saying. It is others who wish to turn this into a debate about why fat people are fat. That isn’t what this is about, and it is completely irrelevant.

As I said in the other thread, there is a huge, huge discussion waiting in the wings about fat that I fully intend to engage, but it is much too large for me to do in a distracted, time-crunched way. I’ll get to it, believe me.

12

I’m sorry Stoid, trust me when I say that my intention was not to be on the side of the pitted asshat. I was simply lamenting the tendency for the issue of the science of fatness to be commingled with the fat acceptance debate.

Too often I find that there is a tendency here to argue that fat people deserve social acceptance because their weight is an issue unrelated to their personal habits. Fat people deserve acceptance because someone’s eating habits is none of my damn business, just as my smoking isn’t yours. Neither of these things is a significant part of a person’s personality.

Being the victim of unjust social ridicule is not a justification for being a purveyor of suspect science. It has not been in the past for any other argument, and it should not be for weight issues. In your first post you had promised a broader debate and I am looking forward to seeing what comes out of it. I have not yet seen convincing science that justifies the widespread idea that many fat people are fat because of an, as yet unknown, medical condition. The fact that I believe the vast majority of overweight people are overweight as a direct cause of food consumption does not affect my judgement of their personality.

13

I would just like to add, as the local representative for people with insulin resistance( ok Not really a rep, I just liked the sound of it) That there are some not so rare diseases, like insulin resistance, that cause weight gain.

14

Do you know what the mechanism behind insulin resistance causing weight gain is? Does it slow down one’s metabolism, reducing their energy use? Or does it cause people to retain excess water? Or is there some other reason behind the weight gain? Just curious here.

If you expend more energy a day than you consume, eventually you WILL use the energy stored in fat & then muscle tissue, causing weight loss. To say otherwise violates basic laws of thermodynamics.

15

This will not be my argument.

Excellent news!

16

You sound like my mother. I cannot say that what you said is wrong, but I can tell you from my own personal experience that weightloss combined with insulin resistance is a bitch. In real laymans terms, insulin resisance causes you not to be able to process carbs right.( I am sure there is a much more high tech explanation to it, but I am too lazy too look it up) In my PCOS support group there is a woman who went on a three salad and three small bowls of pasta a day diet, and got to the point where she wanted to commit suicide because she didn’t lose any weight. She technically should have been, as she was exercising and eating roughly 1400 calories a day. ( I am also not endorsing her diet, seems a bit extreme to me)

I am not trying to turn this thread into a “fat people have reasons to be fat thread” I was just adding that there are some not so rare reasons for people to gain weight. My own twig of a mother is on some medication that has made her gain about 15 lbs ( at 130 lbs she thinks she is a cow) . There are people with thyroid problems. I really don’t consider these to be super rare diseases.

17

Well, I did a bit of research on insulin resistance - the sites I found according to the American Academy of Family Physicians obesity tends to promote insulin resistance, not the other way around.

I do agree that there are a number of diseases that can make losing weight difficult; and I misunderestimated their prevalence. Hypothyroidism, which reduces the metablism rate effects 11 million Americans.

18

Fair enough. Speaking for my self however, I used to be fairly skinny. I weighed about 155. Not skinny as my mom, but not a cow either. Then one month without change in eating habits, I gained about 45 lbs if I recall. 40 something. Went to a doctor, and the doctor promptly put me on a low fat diet. The next month was just about the same. Went back to the Doctor and was told I should stop pigging out on chips and cookies.( I wasn’t, I was following his diet to the letter) After that I switched docs a couplet times. Took me three years to get a diagnosis. By that time I had made it up to 377 lbs. By modifying my diet I am way below that and practically near where I started in the first place( homestreach YAY ME).

Whole point is aside of what we covered about there being more medical reasons than super rare ones, Its not cool to judge people according to their weight IMHO. I am sure when I weighed 377 lbs people looked at me and said “Damn she should really put down the chicken wings, the cow.” Before I had weight problems I am sure I probably looked at people and thought things like that. You can bet your sweet boots I don’t do it now, because I know what its like first hand to have weight problems that are hard to control due to medical problems.
Hell even with diet and exercise, it can be hard to control. Its a constant stuggle to keep my weight stable. I have to keep a food journal every day, and measure my food, or have a really good estimate. That way if I start gaining weight I can pinpoint the cause.

I work with someone who has a thyroid problem, thats even worse than insulin resistance in my book, because not only is she on all sorts of pills, and a diet, she still can’t lose any weight. I would hope that if someone called her disgustangly fat, that she would wallop them.

19

ouch very sleepy
meant “homestretch”
please ignore any and all spelling errors, apparently I should stop worrying about weight gain and worry more about spelling :eek:

20

As much as I hate wading in here, I do need to ask/point out: what difference does it make? Once one is obese, if their obesity itself makes reversing it incredibly difficult, are the obese to be scorned and damned forever anyway? Will their claims of the challenges they face in becoming slim be dismissed as mere excuses by lesser beings anyway?

Like I said, there’s an awful lot to be said here, and as you just discovered “conventional wisdom” can be conventional crap. So many people think it’s so simple, and in fact it isn’t at all. It’s horribly complex, encompassing every aspect of the human condition: genetics, society, psychology, physiology, family, etc.

But of course, for people like the subject of this thread, of whom there is a truly depressing abundance, considering that they might not have a full and complete understanding of the issues in play would undermine their belief that they have some kind of right to feel superior, and therefore nasty and rude, to those who are fatter than themselves.

It’s taking SO much longer than we thought…