No. I noted that there are haters among those who oppose immigration and that groups organized to oppose immigration have done nothing to distance themselves from such haters, implying a tolerance for that position among some (undefined but large) group of opponents.
I noted that the authors indicated that it was intended for legal immigrants and that some of the points you claim have to have been aimed at illegals can be misconstrued based on a different experience between native born citizens and immigrants from repressive regimes. I also noted that the document is flawed, only pointing out that a call to remove it instead of correcting it is indicative more of an adamant opposition to all immigration than to an opposition to illegal activity.
That seems reasonable. May I ask which tribe you belong to? Or if you are not Native American, when you plan on going back where you or your ancestors came from?
(I have no N.A. ancestry, though two of my foster sons were part-Indian. I am grateful to our resident Objectivist Cherokee for consenting to allowing me to rent from my landlady in lands he could lay claim to if he so chose.)
I haven’t seen anyone here say they want to deny anyone a better life.
It is not a slap in the face to my ancesators. The citizens of this country cannot survive this constant invasion.
Unemployment is up. I just heard the other day it is officially 5.?% but is really higher because the count doesn’t include those who have given up finding a job. Let me repeat part of that sentence just for emphasis Given up finding a job.
Can you imagine looking for a job with the uncontrolled influx of illegals into this country?Can you imagine the feeling of having more bills than you can pay and not being able to find even a low paying part time job so you can pay your bills?
You live in a vacuum. Take the blinders off and have a good look around.
If you’re worried about losing your job to illegal immigrants, get a fucking education. That way you won’t have to compete with people who don’t speak english for whatever job is available.
[anecdote]
I spent a lot of my life working as a landscape gardener, shoulder-to-shoulder with illegal immigrants. Most of them busted their asses. I was often a crew supervisor just because I spoke english and enough spanish to tell them what to do. Later I worked construction and then cabinet mills. I worked with a lot of immigrants at the cabinet mills, all here legally.
About 5 years ago I got tired of working for less than $10.00 an hour, so I took some classes in computers. Now I get to sit down for a living and work with people who speak English. I also earn more than I did before. [/anecdote]
It doesn’t have anything to do with “leftist” or “rightist” or any bullshit like that. In any economy, having a skill that is in demand=more earning power. Do something to better your situation instead of blaming the “funny-soundin’ furriners” for your problems. Take some responsibility for your own life.
BMax you are a jerk.
I have a degree in Electronics.
It still doesn’t make job hunting any easier.
BTW take a look at some of the SS threads.
Try to imagine paying your bills with what would be left after GW gets done with SS. Now try to imagine what it would be like if Oh say 3 million Illegal s wern’t grabbing the jobs.
Hear, hear! As a resident of Colorado, I have no problem with the citizens of Maine or Michigan coming to use my ER’s. But those from Michoacan !? Absurd. See the difference? There is an “o” in there and no “g”. Besides, if I happened to get hurt in Michigan, they would let me use the ER there and run away without paying, but if I got hurt in Michoacan… Oh, Mexico has free health care? Well, forget I mentioned it. That’s not the point.
They aren’t from** here**. Look, maybe it will help if I explain it like this: Take a person born north of Brownsville, Texas. She speaks only Spanish and her skin is brown, but she is an American. She can use the ER in Colorado (See! I’m not a racist!). However, a similar person born south of latitude 25 deg. S would be illegal.
Everyone would be against some silly criterion barring citizenship to those whose last name contained the letters “c” and “z” next to each other, or whose place of birth had a lattitude that was a prime number, but barring anybody from citizenship in the U.S. when the latitude of their birth is less than 25 deg. S. is …well, obvious. I think it is actually in the U.S. Constitution.
Right. Only those whose ancestors (all the way back to …errr far back) were born here have the right to health care, college education etc. provided for by others.
Amen. Why do some people try to make it seem that some laws are immoral? Obviously, laws are made by good, honest, decent people that only care for our welfare. Mildred Jeter and Richard Loving were doing something that God did not intend (see Judge’s opinion). Besides, they got their two votes on the matter, didn’t they?
What invasion? Is General Juan Antonio Gilberto Mariachi Juevos Camarones Santana Garcia Inigo Montoya attacking? There is no invasion. Just some people looking for work. Very sinister. Oh I may never get that gardening or dishwashing or lettuce picking job (never wanted to anyway). I probably never will get to work in a sweatshop for below minimum wage either.
I’ve been able to find work. One time when there was a “dry spell” it had nothing to do with the invasion.
I live in Los Angeles, probably the most “infested” city of all, so nope, no blinders here. I have to call bullshit. If you are that hard pressed to make ends meet, maybe you are the one with a problem. Stop blaming total strangers. Nobody stole work from you.
Well sonny:
Let me tell you a few facts of life.
You compete for jobs in this country.
If an employer can get someone to work for lower wages he will do so.
The only reason the wages are where they are if a few folks fought for fair wages.
Your buddy BMax thinks that education is the answer. So did I.
Then I learned a few of the facts of life. Here is a hint Your education will only keep you employed until there is another trained to take your place.Sooner than later he will offer to work for less wages than you.
Now back to my problem sonny.
I’ve spent nearly 30 years working in electronics. Even went into buisness for myself when I couldn’t find a job. Went broke. My problem.Ain’t complaining.
During that time American manufacturers found they could manufacture electronics overseas cheaper than here.
There went the better paying jobs.
Sound kinda familiar?
When someone or something comes into my home when they aren’t supposed to be there its called an invasion.
ie an invasion of ants.
BTW I have washed dishes before. I’m not looking for a job like that but I’ve done it.
Maybe you ought to try it.
Yes I am having a hard time making ends meet.
No I don’t begrudge anyone willing to work BUT they have to do it legally.
So get off your high horse and take a REAL look around.
No one is arguing that you should be forced to board people in your home. Your home is your private property. The entire country is not your property. If I want a certain person to mow my lawn and he agrees to mow my lawn, why should I have to ask you if it is ok for us to make this contract?
This is my country.
Theirs is a little south of here.
No matter what you say he/she/they are here illegally.
The law was made to protect you and me.
Right now I’m feeling a little threatened. So should you. You just don’t know enough to be.
Darn. I was hoping to make a few extra bucks mowing grass when I retire. Lord knows I’ll need it.
Why, sonny, that does sound familiar! If we don’t allow immigrants into this country to work, then corporations will just take their plants, call centers, or whatever overseas or south of the border.
So, we can either just ship those jobs to Mexico, or we can allow Mexican citizens to work those same jobs here in the United States and then reinvest the money that they make back into the United States economy. Immigration is not a zero-sum game, and any new immigrant has the capacity to not only be a worker but also a consumer.
OK, Sonny, first off I am not your sonny. I’ve been in electronics for near 30 years myself. I’m still working in that field. I started as a repairman / bench tech and branched out into engineering. Then along the way, I took on software QA and some part time database guru tasks too. I am where I’m at because I saw something I wanted and did it. I competed against other people in school and in the field every step of the way too. I used to earn extra mad money on the side designing and building antennas for my ham buddies. I highly doubt there are electronics geniuses sneaking across the Rio Grande or any other border just to take your job away from you. American manufacturers outsourced jobs to overseas locations. That has nothing to do with illegals from Mexico. It has more to do with corporate suits deciding to outsource, with our government’s blessing. So the work went to India, Philipines, Taiwan, Korea, etc. I had my share of crappy jobs, just like everyone else - sales “clerk” at Radio Shack, elevator operator, sales “clerk” at Baskin Robbins, temp work at a sweater factory, yada yada yada.
Next time you want to talk down to the young uns, make sure they are the young uns. That’s my advice from one cranky old guy to another.
threemay
It is not immigration. Immigration is done legally.
Steven
Well you are an old fart aren’t you.
Lucky you. You live in an area where there must still be a few electronics jobs. Believe me the computer stuff is just temporary.
I already see many more computer graduates that the few jobs will support. You already know what happens then.
Still luckier that you consider yourself young enough that it was worth it to go to school.
Going back a little more than 30 years, say, 150 years, the “electronics industry” was mostly in Germany, France, and the U.K. Did the children and grandchildren of these pioneering foreigners have exclusive rights to careers in electronics? What right do Americans have to enter this career?
Is this not the same right of Indians to produce computer software, of Egyptians to make cotton cloth, or Mexicans to mow lawns?
At the risk of killing this thread, like this post and cites did on Hyper’s last thread, the second half of the post addresses the costs of illegal immigration to the state of California.
The illegal immigration is not the problem…it is a symptom. The problem is the country of Mexico itself and it’s government. With high level corruption in their government, they have no problem exporting their poor by turning a blind eye to their people leaving the country, yet have tight security at their southern border to keep poorer Central Americans out of their own country (where some may stay and others head to the US). Hypocritical is an understatement here. Dual citizenship is another sticking point as well. Full amnesty will not solve anything, just reinforce the notion that illegal immigration is just stepping stone towards citizenship, and apparentally, the new (or not so new) accepted way to becoming a citizen.
The Mexican government needs an overhaul to help their own citizens and economy. The Mexican people can only do what is necessary to stay alive, and the easiest (which is not that easy at all) is coming here and work to support their families, whether back home or alongside them here. It’s tough nut to crack.
What kind of crappy job do you have that it’s in danger of being taken by an “illegal?” If you are at that low a level of employment might I suggest getting a GED or something.
Also, you can report your employer if they are engaging in illegal hiring practices.
Despite the steady stream of immigration, we keep moving closer and closer to socialized medicine, which appears to contradict your argument.
Why spend one dime on anything? Surely if we want to save ourselves money by kicking the people who are taking government handouts out of the country, we should kick out the corporate executives first. They’re the ones who take the largest amounts of money. Since it’s fair to spend my taxpayer money keeping out “illegal” immigrants, a cause which, if successful, would only affect me by raising the prices I pay, then isn’t it also fair to take your money to pay for their social services?
So are you denying that the United has allowed in tens of millions of immigrants over its history, most of them never subjected to the draconian restrictions that we have today?
When was this exactly? When my ancestors arrived from Poland and Russia between 1900 and 1920, they had to do two things:
Pay $25.
Take a medical exam to prove that they carried no deadly diseases.
Virtually all of today’s immigrants could meet those same standards. And by your own data 84% of today’s immigrants are self-sufficient.
I am in favor of English-only education in all public schools. But the idea that previous generations of immigrants were “forced to assimilate” is hogwash.
Despite the wave of immigrants suppposedly swamping us, our economy is the largest of any country in the history of the world. That remains true regardless of which eye is beholding the situation.
No famine drove my family here from Poland. Did a famine drive your family in from Italy? What percentage of all European immigrants to America came here to escape famine? They came here for the same reason Mexican immigrants now do. Opportunities here that don’t exist back there.
Because the word “illegal” exists to describe actions, not people. No one refers to Osame bin Laden as an “illegal” person. When we are willing to give a negative designation to people born south of an imaginary line, but not give that same designation to terrorists, murderers, and rapists, it’s a sign that something is wrong.
Well that’s your preference. I see nothing in the Declaration of Independence or Constitution granting the federal government the authority to enforce that preference on all of us.
Of what relevance are the job skills an objector (to job competition by non-U.S. citizens)?
What moral arguments would allow an Italian citizen to work as an actor in the U.S., but disallow a Costa Rican carpenter? Why allow competition for “crappy jobs” but not for good ones, or vice versa?