Colorado is ruined...

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

It’s official. It’s been ruined.

This weekend, Mr. Athena and I visited his business partner in Durango, CO. I took my car; Mr. Athena was on his motorcycle. We had a great time in the Four Corners area - about the only issue was that there was a Harley rally in the area, and everyplace was absolutely covered in Harley riders. That’s a good and a bad thing - I’ve done the Harley thing, and it’s a lot of fun to have a bunch of bikers around. Good parties all over town, that sort of thing.

BUT…

on two separate occasions, I looked up from my car (BMW Convertible, not exactly a low profile car) to see some idiot on a Harley splitting my lane trying to flirt with me. This is HIGHLY dangerous, for two reasons. One, it’s utterly idiotic to split a lane. What if I didn’t see the guy, and wandered into the shoulder? What if there was something in the lane/shoulder that caused the bike to veer into me? A lane is for ONE vehicle, not TWO. Two, Mr. Athena gets very, very pissed when someone flirts with me, not to mention when someone puts my life in danger to flirt with me. He doesn’t like that at all.

Also, there were no end of idiots doing idiotic things on bikes. Passing on blind curves, going to fast, tailgating, etc. etc. Bikes are fine; however, I’m completely sick of the whole rally mentality.

But the big reason Colorado is ruined - we came back last night, yup, Labor Day itself, and fully FORTY MILES outside of Denver, the highway was backed up. A standstill. Occasionally we’d go as fast as 25 miles per hour, but in general, it was either stopped or 5-7 mph. Forty Miles from the city. Yes, it was Labor Day. But in the past 3-4 years, we’ve noticed that just about every time we head out from the city, we get caught in traffic for a minimum of an hour. Even on non-holiday, non-special weekends. Even on weekdays. Hell, Mr. Athena spent almost two hours in traffic on 1-25 at 10 am on a generic Sunday morning about two months ago.

I’m done. I’m out of here. Yes, it’s a beautiful state. But getting in and out of this hellpit that is the front range is too much for me.

2

You’ve forgotten what heading south on I-75 from Clare to Detroit is like on Labor Day, haven’t you? :stuck_out_tongue:

3

I feel your pain.

A few years ago, my dad came out for Memorial Day weekend. We went camping in the White Mountains and headed back early on Memorial Day. At one point, we were delayed about an hour by traffic; mostly people coming back from the “lakes.”

We were lucky. Later that day, the news reported upwards of three to four hour delays on the highways coming into Phoenix. Since then I am reluctant to drive out of town for a holiday weekend.

I’m beginning to get fed up with Phoenix for the same reasons you are, plus our ungodly summer heat. I have no plans to move, but I keep an eye open for opportunities elsewhere.

4

Hey, I hear Michigan is a pretty great place to live. :smiley:

5

No it isn’t.

Lane sharing is riding between two lanes of traffic that are going in the same direction Shoulders are off-limits. To answer your first question, riders know that people who drive cars will try to kill them, so they’re looking out for what you do and they expect you to not be paying attention. For the second question, not likely. Riders do pay attention to what they’re doing.

You’d hate California. (I know I do, but not for this reason.) Lane sharing is legal, accepted, and very common.

I thought Colorado was ruined by people moving out from the East Coast to get away from the restrictive laws they have there, then having the same laws passed in Colorado because they can’t function without them.

6

Well, I know I wouldn’t be at a loss for good, close friends if I went to Michigan, BunnyGirl. Climate-wise though, I’m afraid that if I moved to Michigan, I’d be making the same mistake that I’ve made with too many girlfriends: going from one extreme to the other.

If I were to move (not that I’m planning on it right now), I think the ideal location would be upstate South Carolina or North Carolina, perhaps Research Triangle Park. I would be within driving distance of family (with a decent buffer between my parents and me), I’d be close to the outdoor activities I enjoy (if I could live near Asheville, that would be awesome), I’d be in a somewhat cooler climate (but not too cool), and I wouldn’t have to deal with the crowds and traffic that Phoenix and Atlanta offer (although, particularly in RTP, I wonder how much longer that will last).

7

Yeah, right. I’m living in da UP, and I go to Detroit for Labor Day. Thaaaat’s gonna happen… NOT!

I confess - I grew up in the UP, spent 18 years there, and I’ve never been to Detroit. The times I’ve been downstate can be counted on 2 hands. Marquette is closer to Milwaukee, Minneapolis, and Chicago than it is to Detroit.

Johnny L.A. you missed that part about how I’ve done the Harley thing. I’ve spent many, many miles on a bike, and trust me, it’s idiotic to split a lane, at least in the 50+ states where it’s illegal. Sure, in California maybe, people are used to it. But out here in Colorado, people certainly are NOT used to it, and it’s highly, highly dangerous. Whether I’m on my bike or in my car, when I see someone coming up next to me and splitting my lane, I’m pissed.

This guy who was next to me was veering between the shoulder and my lane. We were on a highway, doing about 60 mph. He was looking at me and trying to talk to me, not paying attention to the shoulder or the road. I’m not saying every biker is like this - the majority were safe & courteous. But those few who aren’t manage to piss off just about everyone else on the road. You know the guys I’m talking about!

8

No, I didn’t miss the “Harley thing”. But Harleys are not as easy to lane-share with as narrower bikes. I remember reading an article in CA Biker in 1993 or 1994 that said the CHP conducted a study on lane sharing and found that it was not particularly dangerous. (“50+ states”?)

It’s not worth being upset. If you let a rider by, he’ll be away from you in a second or less. If you don’t let him by, he’ll be there for as long as you’re keeping him there. You’ll be pissed, he’ll be pissed, and he’ll get around you eventually anyway. It’s really a waste of energy. And it’s dangerous to drive mad.

As for your guy on the shoulder, I mentioned the shoulder is off-limits. Even in California.

9

Picky, picky, picky. :stuck_out_tongue:

10

She also said that they were lane splitting so that they could flirt. I assumed that this meant they were coming up alongside, but NOT passing. Once they came aside then the tongue wagging and eyebrow wiggling (or however Harley-riders flirt) began.

I’m in California and I am used to the lane splitters, but even if it is common I see it done in some pretty stupid situations.

11

Well, the real estate market is levelling off. (I got out on the high end! :slight_smile: ) If housing becomes more affordable, the smooth jazz station in Denver changes formats, and “Focus on the Coven” moves to Colorado Springs, I think the state might have a chance.

12

And the traffic just keeps getting worse. I’ve been to Houston and LA, and we’re definitely not there yet, but in about 15 years…

I currently live in Boulder. (North-West of Denver, about 40 miles.) And keep getting job offers in the Denver Tech Center. (South-central Denver, right along the major highway (I-25) through Denver.) If I were to take that job, I would probably spend an hour and a half to two hours getting to OR from work every single day.

Life is too short for spend four hours a day in a hot, sweaty car, lurching along in stop-and-go traffic, at 5 miles an hour. Hey, if I want to torture myself mentally, that’s what I have cable TV for.

Every time I get one of these offers, I’m all smiles and nods. Then I tell them my salary requirements: $100,000/yr, minimum. The frightening thing is that I think once or twice they’ve almost hired me anyway. I’d better raise the price of potential employers throwing away my life in traffic…
I vaguelly knew someone who moved to Wyoming. “Least populated state in the union”, he said. I’m starting to seriously think he was right.
-Ben

13

Yup, I’ve lived in Colorado for 10 years now, and Mr. Athena has lived here for 20. When I first moved here, I rarely saw traffic. I’d go skiing on the weekends, or head down south on I-25 for the day. Once in a blue moon, there’d be an accident on the highway that caused some delays. Pretty much, though, you could count on getting where you needed to go with no problems.

Fast forward a few years - I think it all started around '95 or so. Suddenly on holiday weekends, there’d be delays and no accidents - just delays, because there’s too many cars on the road. Then it starts to be delays on I-70 on good ski weekends. Then delays on non-weekend days from the ski crowd. Then delays on weekends in the summer. Now, it’s delays just about all the time, on I-25 and I-70, as far as I can tell. The last 5-6 times I’ve left the metro area, I get stuck in traffic on the way out, the way back, or both. Doesn’t matter when you leave, what day, whatever. Delays, delays, delays…

14

Lots of people moved here. Government was completely unresponsive, and ignored the problem. People continued to move here. Government turned a blind eye. People are still moving here, and still nothing is being done.

What do you expect to happen?

15

Hehehe, sorry. Couldn’t help spouting a James Bond line.

No, seriously, here’s what I expect: I expect us to scrupulously maintain our current roads, but NOT BUILD ANY MORE. And I’ll tell you why: because traffic expands to fill available lane-space.

Essentially, people are willing to tolerate some amount of traffic and commuting time in order to have good jobs. (For whatever definition of “good” you want to use - pay, field of work, etc.) That’s perfectly natural, and nothing wrong with it. However, what it means is that traffic will never slacken unless people are losing their jobs and no longer need to commute. As long as there are jobs available, people will tolerate up to X hours of commute to get to them. If you increase the number of roads, you only increase total traffic volume - you will NOT reduce traffic density. Because the roads will continue to fill up until people start to get past their X hours of commute tolerance.

If you want to keep traffic at tolerable levels, the only real way to do it in the long term is to promote alternatives to commuting. Adding lanes will not work. It will increase the volume, but it will not decrease delays, accidents, etc. (As a matter of fact it might increase accidents because there are more people per hour travelling over any given stretch of road.)

When you say “the government hasn’t reacted”, you mean they haven’t built more roads. You say this like the government hasn’t even considered that option. Well, they have. And instead they chose to put in carpool lanes, bus lanes, etc, etc. Stuff that gives people a real economic incentive to get out of their single-passenger cars and onto mass transit. Building more normal lanes would only encourage people to do their usual single-commuter thing and make traffic worse. (Unfortunatly they haven’t been very good with the carrot side of the equation - mixed-use zoning and densification.)

No, the state and city have been very farsighted and wise in what they’ve done - and not done. And I back them up 100%. Let the traffic get worse and worse, until all the stupid people realize exactly what a living hell their daily commute has become. (Hint: We’re nowhere NEAR the level-off point.) Making the vast majority of people unhappy with insane traffic levels and refusing to expand the roads is the only way to preserve what’s left of the quality of life here. It’s the only way to avoid becoming LA.

In the mean time, I’ll continue to choose places to live that are within a walk or bike-ride distance of my current workplace. And I’ll smile and wave at all the miserable, stupid people sitting in their cars as I pedal past them. Ba, ha, ha, HA!
-Ben

16

Twenty bucks says ModernRonin2 lives in Boulder.

(scrolling up, I see I’m right! Whoohooo!)

I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree, MR2. As far as I’m concerned, Boulder, with it’s ‘no new roads’ and ‘no growth’ policy, is the worst of the ruined cities in this state. I used to love Boulder - now I can’t even stand to go there, because the traffic makes it horrible. I can’t afford to live there, so it’s pretty damn hard to ride my bike all over. Boulder was once lovely. It’s now a hellhole. The Pearl St. Mall is full of chain stores, the population density is miserable, and there’s riots on the hill. But I’m obviously in the minority in my thinking, since I’m getting the hell out of this state, and everyone else appears to be moving in.

17

It’s idiotic to try and share a lane with a car and not another bike.

And no, Colorado was ruined by people moving from California and driving up housing costs.

18

Then we’ll have to agree to disagree. The CHP study said that it’s “not particularly dangerous”, thousands of people do it every day and don’t crash, and I have a lot of personal experience that shows that an attentive rider can share lanes quite safely. The issue has been raised before in CA, and if it were “idiotic” or particularly unsafe it would be illegal.

FWIW, those motorcyclists who are not comfortable sharing lanes tend not to.

19

:slight_smile: Okay. I can do that. I think my problem with it, is that it gives car drivers too good a chance to push you over the high side. They’re already out to get you, why make it easy. :slight_smile:

20

This is the problem - the “attentive” rider part. Outside of California, people are not used to splitting lanes. Let’s say I’m in the left third of a lane on my bike. A curve is coming up, and I decide I’d rather be more towards the middle of a lane. It never occurs to me to either signal that I’m moving within my lane, nor to check my blind spot. Sure, I do all that when I’m changing lanes, but not simply moving around within my lane. The reason I don’t do all that is because IT’S FRICKIN’ ILLEGAL TO SHARE LANES, at least outside of California.

I can see that maybe in a state where people are used to sharing lanes that people are more aware, and pay more attention. However, I can guarantee you that in Colorado and most of the southwest, when you start sharing lanes with other bikes, much less cars, you’re going to be at worst, risking your life and other people’s lives, and at least pissing of a whole segment of the population.