Just a warning, my participation may be sparse. This is a busy week at work, and my husband appears to have come down with the food poisoning or stomach flu of death, so I basically have to do everything around the house too. It’s 8:30 and I’m just now getting around to eating dinner. Oh, and I’m sick too. And our dishwasher is broken and not fixed until Wednesday, and I have a 10-month-old so there’s a crapton of bottles to hand-wash. I’ll read, but I don’t know how much time I’ll have to post. I’m actually cross-posting this to all three games I’m currently in.
I’m back in town and catching up. I see that **Freudian **has gotten a lot of heat again Today and then I get to this:
Wow. So you are suspicious of people who unvote after a TOWN aligned power role claim? Especially one early enough in the Day to guarantee further discussion and possible counter-claim.
This is too much to let go by without
vote Freudian Slit
Where’d you go? We’re waiting with bated breath!
Concerning pede being the SK, that is actually what I considered the more likely possibility. There was really no way he could survive at that point, but I thought maybe he had considered some slim scenario where the vig would not counterclaim and he and the vig would make it to the endgame. I thought if he were scum, he would have tried to draw out the doc or cop by false claiming. I really just threw the possibility of scum in because I have seen scum just try to create chaos on their way out and thought that might be what he was doing. Also, if I had just said scum, would that not have looked suspicious? Since I am obviously not seeing this from your point of view, it may not have looked suspicious to you, but I would be wondering why they were not considering the possibility of an SK.
At least the rest of your case against me is more legitimate. Unless something flagrant happens (such as pede mischaracterizing peekers remark as baiting), I generally suck at picking out scum early in the game. ( I don’t know if I am worse than others or not, but I feel like I am.) I am also not a very talkative person in real life and I find that carries over to my board participation somewhat. It is one of the reasons I play mafia, because it forces me to interact with others. That said, early in the game I do have a tendency to follow along and comment on things that I think are significant. But even if I haven’t seen anything that significant I do feel like I need to post occasionally. I had been reading the case against amrussell, and as I read their comments I would think “well, that seems to make sense.” I also knew though, that I was not clearly understanding everything that was being said, which meant I needed to go back and review it for myself. But when I actually went back and read what amrussell had written, I had to ask myself “would I really find this scummy if I had not been following the conversation about it?” The answer for me was no. I guess you could say that that post was somewhat for appearances sake, since I don’t want Town mislynching me just because I am not participating enough.
I know players have different styles, but I don’t usually like to change my vote a lot. I usually wait until I am fairly confident that my vote will stay on that person (barring a claim or some such) before I vote. At the time of that post, I was definitely not willing to commit to a vote on amrussell.
I am late to the game here, but I agree with all of those who say this is a bad idea. We do not want to give the scum any more input into decisions than necessary.
Can you explain why you picked the players you did to ask the questions of? The questions to Tom and Story are obvious, but why did you not ask the first question of other players as well? Also, why specifically did you ask Guiri about a voting pact? I know you said it was to get a read, but what kind of read does that question get you and why Guiri in particular?
What specifically was this in response to?
Also, this is your total contribution to Day 2? I know this is my first post of the Day, but I think it is a little less cryptic.
Yesterday, Freudian just pinged me slightly by being over defensive until she jumped on pede over his claim (turned out she was right, but in an open setup, it is doubtful that players are false claiming, and if they are the actual roles can counter claim), then I really started to suspect she was scum. She was my top suspect going into the Day, but I had planned to look at some other players before voting. The quoted post above, though, just pushes it over the top for me. It adds mischaracterizing to the list of charges against her. The reason it is the easiest thing to do is because you are making it so.
Vote Freudian Slit
I still plan on looking at some other cases, primarily Red Skeezix and Cookies, but I don’t really see me changing my vote for toDay.
Also, Ed, you have turned me into Schroedinger’s mafia player. I have both no votes and 1 vote.
I am stealing this for one of my setups.
Vote Count with about 2 days, 21 hours, and 25 minutes
11 Votes required to start countdown.
(peak vote in parentheses)
7 Votes
*Freudian Slit (7 #584) Zeriel (512), Red Skeezix (536), Drain Bead (545), Tom Scud (561), GuiriEnEspaña (568), USCDiver (582), Mental Guy (584)
2 Votes
Rin Twisted (2 #540) Tom Scud (534 561), storyteller0910 (540). Mahaloth (571)
1 Vote
Mental Guy (1 #522) Alka Seltzer (522)
Red Skeezix (1 #526) peekercpa (526)
0 Votes
Zeriel
Drain Bead
Tom Scud
Alka Seltzer
peekercpa
Mahaloth
Nanook of the North Shore
ToeJam
USCDiver
DiggitCamara
MHaye
GuiriEnEspaña
storyteller0910
ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
Lynch Leader
**
Not voting:* Nanook of the North Shore, Freudian Slit, ToeJam, DiggitCamara, MHaye, Rin Twisted, ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
then he’d have to be Schrödinger’s Mason.
Both a Town mason and a Scum mason at the same time, until observed, when he becomes a mason investigator, who doesn’t get results. They go to Meeko.
Don’t tempt me. You know, that would actually fit into the zompocolypse game…
Behold: Quantum Werewolf!
Sorry to hear that Drain Bead.
Like you and Drain Bead, I think scum would be more likely to claim cop or doc in the hope of outing a higher value role. I don’t consider my slip theory to be a strong tell by itself, I picked you out for a vote because I saw some other possible scum tells.
One of the reasons I play is to work on my writing skills.
I find this somewhat plausible, as I’ve experienced this in another game, where I found myself overly influenced by other player’s arguments and changed my mind on re-read.
I have some meta on Guiri from the last game, so I thought he’d be a good target. The point of the question is that it looks like a trap. Scum have to worry about giving the ‘wrong’ answer. I don’t think I learned much from Guiri’s response really, but he did take a reasonable position.
I’ve flagged up DiggitCamara as a possible suspect for smearing now confirmed townie peeker with an unjustified argument. I asked him a theory question just to get a bit of a read on his playstyle.
On the slip question, I was checking Drain Bead for consistency, because she earlier said she didn’t like votes based on possible slips. I asked Cookies because she misinterpreted my earlier comment on why peeker is town as an attack. I asked Red Skeezix because he is under a little pressure from confirmed townie peeker.
I’d describe Freudian’s play as anti-town, but I don’t see a scum motive for it unless she has been setting herself up for a bus from very early in the game.
Nanook was quick to smear me for “asking questions but not doing much else”. He has been very quiet and voted late on day 1.
@Nanook – You do realise I subbed into the game night 1 and have only been able to make content posts since Sunday?
I will:
**Unvote MentalGuy
Vote Red Skeezix**
As he looks a little like scum backpedalling under pressure to me. I don’t think the initial case against him amounted to much, but since then he’s backed off on an attack on Cookies, placed a vote on what I consider to be an easy target, and repeated my position back to me in #550 (of course, he might just agree with me – stranger things have happened).
I’m not sure my brain is ready for the concept of Quantum Mafia.
You acknowledge the weakness of the case but support it regardless. Interesting.
It may appear to be backpedaling, but only if you haven’t paid attention to my play throughout the whole game (all two days of it so far). You might take note that before ped actually came out as SK, I had moved my vote to freudian and accused peek of backing her up with his counterclaim. IMO her play is anti-town at best and pro-scum at worst. I’m still suspicious of Cookies (less than yesterday), but more suspicious of Freudian. So thats where my vote lies.
Also consider the fact that I acknowledged that I was misreading Cookies vote as opportunistic, and not as she intended it: To point out the false dichotomy in pede’s comment yesterday. Should I continue to press the point of her vote yesterday, when my suspicions are now cut in half? Remember that my suspicions of her are based on her vote for ped + what I percieve as quiet play. If I have suspicions that are shown to me to be based on a misread, should I continue to pursue them with the same vigor?
You may also want to notice that I have not completely balked away from my suspicions of Cookies, since I questioned her about her lack of vote for me in spite of me being on the top of her suspicion list (twice infact). So my play reflects that I am acting as suspicious as the level of my suspicion dictates, and that seems scummy to you?
Easy target? What does that even mean? Someone is playing scummy, so I vote for them and that says to you I’m picking on an easy target? Is the point of this game to pick out the least likely to be scum, and vote for them since they are the hardest target?
I must be missing where you stated your opinion before I posted, since I apparently repeated it back to you, could you supply me with a quote to the relevant text where you stated this opinion?
If you hadn’t previously stated that opinion, and you think that it is scummy for me to be in agreement with you, what does that mean? Why is counted amongst your reasons for voting me?
Your vote seems very weak to me, but I suppose that may just be my own personal bias since you are voting for me.
Um. Could we stop analyzing the strategy for scum? We don’t want to give them ideas!
Hmm, DiggitCamara…
Ok, vig might hit town first night, but don’t use power for a couple of nights, I disagree, but I suppose it’s defendable.
Unfortunately you are not pushing any of the reasons, you are saying that the risk of hitting town is too great so the vig should wait for a cop claim and investigation reveal. I don’t like this.
A peeker smudge, and accusations of peeker being incomprehensible. Well sometimes he seems so, but in this game he’s been clear as a bell to me.
Votes because peeker is suspicious, but doesn’t mention why he is suspicions. Because he is incomprensible. This reads like a style vote, and a weak one at that.
The role blocker should refrain from action at night, since it’s even chance of blocking town. Yeah it’s possible but that’s not enough reason to refrain I think.
Your previous post is a strategy analysis? So it’s okay for YOU to analyze strategy during the day, but everyone should keep mum, lest we give scum ideas. Idle once called me on making a comment like this when I was scum, and he was dead right. And the only thing that town not talking strategy accomplishes is town not having a strategy.
I hadn’t really been looking at you closely, you seemed to be under my radar. But this last post is scummy as hell.
unvote Freudian (Although I still heavily suspect her)
vote DiggitCamara
I’m sure the scum would never have thought to block the only revealed Town power role on their own.
Also, what Skeezix said re: hypocrisy.
Not unvoting Freudian just yet, but big fat FOS.
Re: my comment about the discussion of Scum strategy:
The reason I posted that comment was that it seems to me we’re trying too hard to guess what scum will be doing about peeker and while doing so, we might easily give them ideas about him.
It’s not an accusation against anyone, just something that might damage us if we keep doing it.
Re: my comments about the vig’s Night actions:
I have seen, far too often, Vig’s killing Town left and right because they have no real informed decisions. Our strength is in numbers, not in information. So: less dead players during the first couple of Nights helps us. Which is why I advocate in-action by our Vig until he has more information.
Re: my comments about the Roleblocker’s Night actions:
Arguably the weakest one. The greatest harm (s)he could do would be to block one of the Town’s power roles (Doc or Detective). The greatest good the Roleblocker could do would be to stop one of the Scum’s power roles (Goon or Roleblocker). Stopping the Scum Roleblocker… well, unless he’s targetting a Town Power role, it doesn’t help anyone. And it would not even be perceived. Stopping the Goon would help (by having less deaths during the Night).
The potential Net Gain is negative (Two Negative options against a Positive one). At least until we have more information.
We are not solely focusing on strategy, if we were there wouldn’t be as many votes cast as there are.
But it wasn’t waiting until he has more information, it was waiting till the cop claims and can provide him with actual targets, targets which can be just as easily lynched. I say if the vig feels confident enough to make the kill, then do so, for two reasons:
-
It’s more information to town, not just about the alignment of the deceased, but also an insight into the motivation of the deceased. If a town player gets NK’d by the vig, then they are confirmed and their statements can be examined with out the overhead of looking for scum motivation behind the statements. (This is another reason why I feel it is important for town to avoid lying whenever possible and never lying about suspicions.)
-
The vig might hit scum, which is good.
Your analysis is flawed (16 players tonight because of lynch and assuming that the town blocker isn’t going to block a claimed vig): The random probability(which is a base, but not the actual based on the comments of the players during the day) of the town blocker doing no harm or at least fouling scum plans is 7/8 compared to the probability of 1/8 that they hit the town doc, or town cop. Yet you don’t take any of this into account when you argue that the roleblocker shouldn’t act tonight.
NETA: :smack: I left out the extreme unliklihood that rb wouldn’t block himself: so for those previous numbers should be 13/15 for blocking to 2/15 against. A little worse, but not that much.
**I am pleased to announce:
Meeko is replacing Rin Twisted.**
Well. I guess the problem of Rin not posting enough is about to be solved.
Welcome to the game, Meeko. And a belated thanks to Alka as well. Thanks for helping out.
I for one do not see Skeez letting up on me a little bit as suspicious. It makes me inclined to relax a bit about him as well, at least for now since we seem to be more in sync in our views. I’d like to know more about whether Alka’s suspicion of Skeez for backing off extends to me by proxy and why. Did you find his case against me compelling, Alka?
I’m still trying to make sense of Alka’s list of questions too.
As for Freudian, I’m still not sold on the case against her. I am not sure that it doesn’t boil down to folks having a general dislike of her snark and playstyle, perhaps with a few opportunistic scummy votes thrown in.
At this point I’m looking the closest at Alka and Diggit based on what we’ve seen so far Today.