Okay. I was woefully wrong to think all the current Native American tribes came into being after 1492. But to the point I was making,
It is still my understanding that, outside of Mexico, indigenous peoples did not have a system of writing. There are still oral histories of course, but even with that I struggle to see how the focus of an Indigenous People’s Day could be on precolumbian history. The more recent five hundred years of history are better documented and, I would think, have significantly more bearing on the culture and identity of those peoples, thus on the holiday that celebrates those peoples.
Furthermore we can go back to my earlier point, which despite my demonstrated ignorance on the history of tribes, remains undisturbed (at least in my opinion):
Can’t speak to who you identify with. But the idea that the current USA can be mostly identified with the culture of the early European settlers, while it does indeed seem to be carefully taught in some schools, seems to me to have huge holes in it.
Can you elaborate on those “holes”? I re-read your earlier replies just a minute ago and that’s not the impression I got. I took it to mean it is a shame Americans often forget how horribly we (the Europeans) treated Native Americans, not so much that Americans should/do identify with the Native Americans rather than the Europeans in those histories.
The elements of their cultures that a lot of them choose to celebrate predate European contact - not necessarily pre-1492, but that specific date’s actually irrelevant for this issue. It would be a mistake to hold to Columbus, specifically, when he had jack to do with the USA.
If they did choose to concentrate on aspects of their culture that predate Europeans, who are you to say that they’re celebrating wrong? And if that’s largely what makes it to the rest of society as a celebration of Indigenous Peoples Day, what standing would you have to oppose that? Would it be the “Juneteenth is the wrong day” kind of silliness we’ve seen here before?
Now, I’m not saying an Indigenous People’s Day should ignore post-contact history. But why on Hastur’s blighted Earth would it ignore the thousands of years before that? Ignorance like that is what you want to counter, so future generations don’t act surprised when they learn that most North Americans were farmers not HGs, or that Cahokia existed, etc.
Rereading the topic, I realize I never addressed this.
You are correct sir, my fear is that the American people no longer identify with Columbus, the conquistadores, or potentially the British, French, and Dutch forces that subjugated indigenous peoples in the early chapters of our history. I do think Columbus the individual will fall out of our collective memory as someone to be identified with, and I think identifying with Columbus and the Europeans who followed in his mold - the good and the bad - is a core part of the national identity.
I’m wondering how Indigenous Peoples Day could be commemorated by anyone not on the Nations’ rolls while avoiding accusations of cultural appropriation, offensive inaccuracy, etc. Accusations mainly from other whites desperate to prove their “I’m not like the rest” credibility.
So you’re saying the core part of the national identity is… white identity? And you’re afraid of losing it?
If you know any people who aren’t white, I’d highly suggest you run this theory by them and see how it goes. Perhaps from a safe distance or behind some sort of barrier.
Antarctican-Americans actually appreciate you including them. All too often, the bottommost continent is explicitly excluded. Try googling “every continent except Antarctica”.
(World Penguin Day) Which, of course, needs to be made a national holiday, too.
I’m specifically talking about people looking at the history of the U.S. and saying, “we aren’t those colonists that did horrible things to the Native Americans, that wasn’t us”. I wouldn’t describe that as white identity holding a place of supremacy, but if that is what you would call it, then yes, I’ll own it.
You really had to twist those words out of me, and in any other place I would assume you are mocking me rather than having an honest debate.
I think we have had a misunderstanding at some point, when I opined that those early Europeans are part of our national identity I did not mean to imply we share their morals today. Only that we, as a nation today, literally identify with them: their history is our own history, we were not the ones being handed smallpox-infested blankets but were the ones handing them out, we were not the ones who lost our lands but were the ones driving Native Americans out, &etc.
I think what Max is, clumsily (and rarely so!) trying to say that the history of ‘America’ as a country has mostly been taught within the ‘Western Civilization’ framework and not the ‘Five Nations’, or other Native Nation’s, framework.