Ignorance is rampant and a little knowledge is a very dangerous thing.
I really do not want to get deeply involved in this thread as I have come to the conclusion that Great Debates is the Pit without the cussing and I have never seen anyone learn anything here or change their opinion, so I would not think I would be the first one to achieve that effect. So I will not engage anyone personally, just state my own view and try to move on and not waste time here.
The people who most denigrate Columbus are those who know least about him. The denigrate him on counts that are false and others that are true but it is foolish to judge by today’s standards. AS Stuyguy points out, it is foolish to judge people who lived 500 years ago by our standards. If you cannot see the foolishness of this I really do not wish to try to convince you of anything.
I have read several biographies of Columbus and my view is that he was an outstanding navigator, far ahead of his those of his time. At the same time he was a very poor leader of men or negotiator and that got him into all sorts of trouble.
The page mentioned: http://www.halcyon.com/wfrazier/columbus.htm (I had to remove the last period for the link to work) is laughable and full of inaccuracies and misjudgments. Note that this same guy has another page about USA-Irak where he blasts America (a land where “the big criminals make the laws”) and defends Irak. He is a leftist extremist and I am glad I do not share his views.
Columbus captained several expeditions but he never governed or had any other civil command. To accuse him of what the Spanish might have done later is ludicrous. He was a navigator and discoverer and that is how he should be judged. He never governed. To blame him for what came later would be like blaming Einstein for Hiroshima. Some people think it is reasonable, I think it is ludicrous.
The discovery of America was lead by a man who probably was born in what is now Italy but is was not an Italian enterprise. Italy didn’t even begin to exist until much later in history.
The discovery and colonizing of America was begun by Castile (not Spain) and continued by other European countries. To blame Columbus for what the Europeans did is just plain ignorant.
Looking at the bigger picture of what the Spanish and other Europeans did and judging by the standards of their time, I cannot see what is so wrong.
The Spanish crown immediately decreed that Indians were chrildren of God, could not be enslaved and should be converted to the Christian faith. I am not religious and I think religion may be a pretty stupid thing for pretty stupid people but that does not change the fact that they thought they were doing those people some good by converting them. Today America tries to expand democracy as a universal value because that is what they consider to be good. For Europeans 500 years ago it was religion.
Yes, Europeans had wars with the natives just as they were having wars among themselves in Europe. 500 years later we still have wars going on in Europe and elsewhere. I cannot see how Europeans were so guilty in this aspect.
The Spanish tried to expand their culture in America just like America does all over the world today and for the same reason: because they thought it was better. They brought with them the form or civil government, religion and culture they knew. Obviously it was not perfect but it was a damnsight better than the indian culture they found.
Yes, they forced some indians to do some things they did not want to do. You know what? That was the way life was 500 years ago and many Spaniards were also forced to do stuff they did not want to do. You know what? 300 years later the British were still forcing men to sail on ships against theiur will. You know what? Countries today still recruit people for the army against their will and make them pay taxes (also known as working) against their will.
To call the Spanish colonization “genocide” is plainly against the facts. The Spanish always considered the natives as people to be converted to Spanish culture, religion and institutions. There was NEVER any thought that they should be killed.
The Spanish tried to map their organization on to native culture as best they could and as they had done elesewhere. At that time people were divided into nobles, commoners etc, (not only in Spain but everywhere in Europe) and Spain tried to implement that organization.
When the Basque country was joined with the crown of Castile, it turned out the basques had no nobility as such and so, this presented a problem. How could you have a society like that. Jurists set out to work and discuss whether all Basques should be considered commoners… in the end it was decided all Basques, no matter how poor or low, would be considered nobles. Today this might make you laugh but at that time it was the best they had.
When the Spanish arrived in America they did the same thing. In societies that did have a “nobility” like the Aztecs, their nobles were given titles of nobility by the Spanish crown (which probably survided until the declaration of Mexican independence). The Spanish did not massacre them, they gave them titles of nobility. And when things could not be resolved by better means, they fought just like humanity still does today. You only have to look at Israel today.
To say Cortés with a couple hundred Spaniards defeated and massacred the Mexican empire is wrong and anyone with a little common sense would see this would have been impossible. Cortés (in great contrast to Columbus) was great leader of men and a great negotiator. He took advantage of the internal quarrels among native triv=bes and used them to his advantage. For every Spaniard fighting the Mexicans there were many hundreds of Indians fighting on the same side.
The Black legend about Columbus and the Spanish conquest is based on a little bit of fact and a lot of stuff that has no basis in fact. Columbus never governed, never enslaved anyone and in fact ended himself in chains back in Spain.
As I said, I know I could write here until the cows come home and that would not change the view of anyone reading by one iota. I just hope those with a more flexible mind can know that, like most large enterprises in life, this one is complex and it takes a lot of learning before you can begin to form a valid opinion. If you see it in terms of black and white it means you probably know very little about it.
There are some pretty good biographies of Columbus out there and, to those interested in the topic I would recommend reading more. But the web page mentioned above is total crap and full of inaccuracies.
If someone wants to discuss this topic more objectively (I mean from a factual historic perspective, not from a judgmental position),I for one would find it very interesting as I have read quite a bit about the period. But if we are just going to denigrate the white man for causing everything that’s wrong, then I have no interest in engaging in the discussion.
