Come here, Assholes, I need to talk to you.

The BBQ Pit
1

Gather around, children. Daddy’s got something to say.

Today we have lost two RPs who have repeatedly proven themselves to be good people. Real good. Much better than you assholes deserve to be allowed around. Much better people than you sociopathic jerks are allowed to be around in real life.

Why did we lose them? Because of jagoffs like you. Were they too “sensitive?” Nachos4Sara just wanted to mouth off some about guys. You took it way beyond what was appropriate. TechChick didn’t even ask for it. You ungrateful dickwads started that on your own after she did something nice.

Real life doesn’t allow you to be abusive and just plain mean. The cops would be out with a restraining order real fast. Where the fuck do you get the idea that it is any better to do it online?

These stupid flame wars may have been okay ten years ago, when real people weren’t online and you trolls had the net and bulletin boards and such to yourselves. But this is a new day and the folks 'round here don’t appreciate your childish behavior.

So get lost. We don’t need you. We don’t want you.

2

I agree with dropzone. I was hoping to get to know Nacho4Sara and Techchick a little better, and you assholes out there ruined the chance, not just for me, but for every person on this whole damn board. What the fuck is wrong with you? We don’t want your bullshit here. You know who we’re talking about. Knock it off and get a goddamn life.

3

Drozone, you are positively eloquent. Nobody could have said it better.

4

How about a link fellas?

BTW- if you are talking about techchick68, then you can enjoy her posts over on OpalCat’s Board

5

Okay, I get it! It’s like a litmus test for assholes, right? You say, “Come here, assholes”, and whoever responds by posting to the thread–

Oh.

6

So, in the first case (N4S), I think you’re saying that [ul][li]if I post a 'Pit rant so I can “mouth off” about, oh, Republicans,[]make rabid generalizations about Republicans being minions of Beelzebub,[]take any contrary statements to be an attack on Me-and-Everything-I-Stand-For,[]call everybody who disagrees with my “Republicans are evil swine” rant a nazi pedophile, and then[]leave the board because my rant wasn’t left unchallenged in the 'Pit[/ul]then the people who tried to talk some sense into me are the assholes??[/li]
Allow me to humbly disagree, oh Arbiter of Tact and Diplomacy. Respected Posters should get the same consideration as anybody else; we should respect them enough to reply honestly to their posts! If they can’t distinguish the well considered disagreements from the trollish ones, or they don’t know enough to wear asbestos suits when they post in the 'Pit, then maybe they are too “sensitive” to post provocative subjects.

In the second case (techchick68) there’ve been enough appreciative posts, and even a separate thread praising her work, that it should be clear to her how the majority of us feel about her. In fact, techie has said she’s just taking a break and will be back.

I hope to see both of them back. You’re right, they’re good people. However, I don’t intend to ever walk on eggshells so as not to offend anyone in the 'Pit, and I certainly won’t try and make judgements (based on What anyway?) about how much disagreement someone can handle without running away. I don’t think arguing about something a Respected Poster says makes me a “sociopathic jerk” any more than posting a rant disparaging an entire gender makes a Respected Poster a jerk.

The thing that makes this message board special, to me anyway, is that we don’t bow to political correctness, we don’t bend over backwards to hide our feelings lest we offend someone by being different, and most importantly we can disagree vehemently and still enjoy each other’s company!!! I sure hope that can continue.

7

“We can disagree vehemently and still enjoy each other’s company!!!” Hmmmm, since we lost two good posters to vehement disagreement, maybe we should think about limits to our own vehemence. Some people weren’t enjoying our company anymore.

What I suggest is not “political correctness,” it is living in a society. The kneejerk reaction to any talk of boundaries as “bowing to political correctness” is silly and immature. And to say “we should respect them enough to reply honestly to their posts” is an old and invalid attitude that uses “honesty” as camoflage for abuse.

The most basic question to ask in any form of social discourse is “Will this get me punched in the nose?” I can’t punch you and you can’t punch me online, as much as you might like to. But I started this thread while angry and looking for a fight. I am still angry. I expect punches thrown my way. Techie wasn’t. She got blind-sided. Sara was just blowing off steam, then responded to unwarranted attacks by slashing out. Generalizations about men or Republicans or assholes or whoever are not hurtful in the same way as personal attacks. Personal attacks are not a substitute for intelligent discourse.

The internet ain’t the Wild West anymore. Respectable folks are moving in and taking over. It’s time we start treating each other with a little respect, and earn some respect for ourselves.

8

I posted on NACHOs thread. I did not agree with everything she said. Does that make me an asshole? Does your call for tolerance and civility mean that you will stop calling people assholes if they post things in a manner of which you don’t approve? Are you planning to petition the administrators to make the PIT even more closely monitored and restrictive of expression than it is now?

Oh, and BTW

The people I met on boards 10 years ago were every bit as real and a damned sight more adult in their behavior than you, if this rant is any indication. The Internet wasn’t built with training wheels. Some of us like it that way. If you want to pretend you’re the new sherriff in town and tell me how to live, well, I wish you much joy in your rich fantasy life. Be prepared for disappointment, though. Folks 'round here don’t always appreciate being told how they have to behave. Some of us think adults should be allowed to challenge ideas without worrying about hurting another adult’s feelings.

9

Here’s my point. Your OP addresses two broad groups; those who post remarks merely to be insulting, and those who post strong opinions which an RP may find objectionable. The small-minded and mean individuals in the former group are not going to be swayed by your impassioned rant, because they think they’re clever. The more mature individuals in the latter group may indeed be moved by your OP to restrict themselves to a more reasonable level of discourse if they’ve been unduly enthusiastic.

Here’s where the “political correctness” comes in (and you can consider this “knee jerk” if you like); those posters who have merely responded to a particular OP in kind, using the same language and tone, are now hearing from you that they should strive not to offend so as to keep the original poster from feeling threatened or unappreciated.

While I agree that we need to be just as considerate here as we are IRL, I can’t agree that when a poster gets so upset they leave we need to start yelling at everyone else! It was Sara’s own behavior that prompted other equally “respected posters” to rail at her, and it was her own feelings of insecurity that made her decide to leave. (BTW, here’s the thread that “drove” Nacho4Sara away, for those of you who asked for a link.)

dropzone I totally agree with you that “personal attacks are not a substitute for intelligent discourse.” But I think Diane put it much more eloquently than I have in this thread when she said:

Yes, we should be respectful and considerate. Yes, we should refrain from personal attacks in general (after all, posters are popularly applauded when they make personal attacks on known or suspected trolls and other asses — let’s not be hypocritical).

No, “respect” does not mean pulling punches with each other.

10

What Spiritus said.

Addendum:

(my bolding)

You mean . . . she might not have been as much a martyr as you make her out to be? You mean . . . she (gasp) participated in the argument?

::cough…doublestandard…cough . . .::

11

Dropzone, I appreciate your concern. I understand everything you are saying.

But the REAL reason I am not posting as much anymore has more to do with my new job than anything else, I swear. I can’t post as much as I used to because I am working a lot more*

*today I have off for a drs. appt. so that is why I am posting

and that is affecting my life. Although I have to say I was hurt when I got attacked for blowing off steam in the Pit. When I share something personal, like “Oh I am having problems with this guy I like a lot,” I do not expect certain people to respond by telling me I am nuts to think he likes me, that I am not as exciting as a hoochie because I have a positive IQ, and that I am a whiny petulant “harpie” for being pissed about something and expressing that. Yes, I needed a reality check, but nothing as extreme as what I got.

IRL, if someone had said that to me, I would have punched them, or at least tossed a bitch-slap their way.

Looking back, I admit that I was incensed by Quicksilver’s posts and took it out on others, although I feel as though I have every right to defend myself when someone calls me stupid for wanting a large family or stupid for being angry about something (neither of these comments came from Quicksilver).

Anyway, I over-reacted and I am apologizing. IRL I would expect someone who did the same to apologize as well, but I have learned not to expect that OL. That is another (less significant) reason I am breaking from this board.

I will post again, when I have the time I need (I usually spend about 3-4 hours a day reading and then post a little bit, to give you an idea of the time I spend here.) Next time I have a day off or I have time after work, I will read and perhaps post some. But for the most part, I will not be here.

Sorry for the confusion, all.

12

I, myself, told Sara that she could have handled herself differently. I make no apologies for her. In fact, this thread wasn’t really triggered by her loss. She couldn’t stand the heat; if she just wanted sympathy we have another forum for that. It was losing two people in one day that did it for me.

What finally pissed me off was the loss of TechChick. Here was a person who has demonstrated that she can give as well as she gets but left because of unwarranted attacks. A person who has done more for the SDMB than all of us who have posted on this thread combined.

I do not demand (and I’ll admit I’m in an immature demand mode right now) honey slathered on all posts. Just view what you say with an eye towards how it will be taken. You have to do that in real life, in real relationships. As we saw after the death of Wally and Satan’s “not just a message board” thread, many people consider the relationships they built here to be real. Excluding trolls like me and sock puppets, our members are real people with real feelings. When they piss you off, use the talents you have to gently fricasse them. Or even, dare I say, offer solutions. It’s hard to be taken too seriously when you call someone a “squirrel-felching putz,” may the ol’ squirrel-felching putz rest in peace.

I know some will fry me for this suggestion, but maybe we could use more smilies? Maybe we need a broader selection? Or use some other method, like asides and stage instructions, to substitute for tone of voice and facial expressions. Something to let people know we are not as angry or serious or psychotic as we sound. And, if you find that you really are that angry, serious, or psychotic, take a nap.

I’ve noticed the same “new sheriff in town” self-importance in my postings as ya’ll have. I’ll try to tone it down.

As for calling you an “asshole,” how do you know I was speaking to you specifically? There are plenty of people on this board that fit the description, including me. But if the shoe fits…

13

You make a good point dropzone, now I’m actually considering using smilies. Something that annoys the hell out of me. But you’re right, people can’t quite pick up sarcasm and such through just words.

14

“The Internet wasn’t built with training wheels.”

Oh, so THAT’S why I keep falling off my computer chair…

15

Bloody hell. At long last I must agree with Spiritus Mundi.
I know that many of us here are still hurting over WallyM7. I have no problem with the respects that have been shown (including the banner, nice touch). And I too am sorry to see techchick68 leave us and I hope she works things out for the best. On both counts I understand if someone is in a delicate emotional state and I try to tread lightly. I don’t abuse people just to see my name up in pixels.

I also know that we have been deluged with waves of pathetic obnoxious sock fuckers lately. The poor mods who have to wade through all that toll shit can be forgiven if they run out of patience once in awhile. I’m hoping they get to write off those hip waders as a business expense.

But this place has gotten way too candy-ass lately. This is The Pit. Smell the sulpher, check the thermostat. This is where I live. I come here to say exact-fuckin-ly what’s on my mind and get it tossed straight back in my face with plenty of Tobasco. I don’t want the stinking cotton candy bullshit and I really, really want to KILL ALL SMILIES!

I want what you’ve got to say, smoking and spinning and from the heart. Don’t filter it or pretty it up, just let me have it. I like mine raw, call it posting sushi. If you’ve got something worth talking about, we’ll chat. If I get my ass kicked I admit it. When I’m convinced and change my views I concede the point. If a low watt troll takes a cheap shot I flip it straight to the compost heap. If you turn out to be just another pit-trolling putz, then twit filters up and fuck right off. I can take care of myself.

If you come down here and get your brains popped inside out, don’t goddam cry about it to me. Thin skins need not apply. The entire rest of the world is nice. People stab each other cold turkey and hang a smiley face on it. Save the polite bullshit; it gets in the way. Anyone who wants to be nice and sweet, don’t let the door hit you where the dog should’a bit you.

FreakFreely:

Aaaaaagh!! Please! Stay with the dark side! Nooooooo!

16

Look here, slap head.

I don’t know where you got the idea that people should have freedom of speech as long as they watch what they say.

We all know that the world is chock full of stupid people, and if anyone expects me to candy coat what I have to say because some shmuck “can’t handle it” and is going to cry like a little girl with a skinned fuckin’ knee, they’re in for a big suprise.

I have a posting style that has been construed as callous, uncouth, callow, rough, blunt, lacking tact, and just plain mean.

Those who know me know that I just don’t bother to gloss over things in consideration of any resident hyper-sensitive dipshits. Good thing there aren’t too many of them.

I’m not going to walk on eggshells around here, I am going to call it like I see it, and your delicate sensitivities be damned.

I try to be unbiased, fair, honest and forthright, and if some people can’t handle the plain truth, then so be it.

You must have this site bookmarked, because if you had to type it in, it would be abundantly clear to you that the URL is http://www.straightdope.com. Which stands for The Straight Dope.
The “straight dope” being an accurate assessment of the truth or state of affairs, without all the bullshit or confusing semantic that detracts from the purity of the one thing that we are all striving to uphold:
The Truth.

So fuck you and your “be nice because some idiots wiww get theiw feewings huwt” hippie bullshit. Take your bullshit and go sing cumbaya with some folks who like to butter each other’s asses instead of cutting to the chase to get to the crux of an issue.

If someone doesn’t like it, fine. If they want to leave, peace. If you want to defend your point of view, then great. If you want to cry and piss and moan, go to your room. If you want someone to kiss your ass, call a 900 number.
But kindly keep that happy shit out of here, that kind of people make me sick.

I should be able to say anything here, and so should anyone else. And that’s how it is. As long as you’re not insulting someone pointlessly, with no reason other than to be a dick.
If I say “I hate spics!” then I expect people to come back and tell me in no uncertain terms what an idiot I am.
If I say “I hate lime jello!” then I would expect the thread to be moved to MPSIMS.
And if I say “Don’t be so mean to someone who comes off like a total moron!” in the pit, I expect to be told to go fuck myself.
So go fuck yourself.

~Santi

PS. I just read that dropzone is going to try to tone down the high and mighty attitude. Cool. Way to go. I don’t think that detracts from the relevance of this post, so here is the whole thing anyway.

17

But I do High and Mighty so well!

Mommmm-mmmmy! Lexicon is trying to squelch my creativity!

[irl=“http://www.loundy.com/E-LAW/E-Law4-full.html#V”]Legally[/irl], freedom of speech does not extend to defamation, the classic shouting “Fire!” in a crowded theatre, calls to unlawful action, hate speech, and what are called “fighting words.” Yes, it’s a real legal phrase. They are “those which by their very utterance inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace.” This what my “punch in the nose” test is for.

The Communications Decency Act protects the SDMB’s operators from prosecution for these violations. You and I are not so blessed. We do have to walk on eggshells. Check the law.

And, yes, I just learned a lot of this stuff, myself. I intend to be more circumspect. I suggest all of you do, too.

18

Okay, first of all, I can tell that you just learned this stuff, because you need to a review.

  1. To be slanderous or defaming, usually something has to affect your career. I can jt imagine Joe Doper at a job interview, and his prospective boss saying something like:
    “Hmmmm. Well, it looks like your qualified, and you seem very nice so - wait, what’s this? According to some website that has nothing to do with this job description, it says here that you are a “puling milksop”. I’m sorry, but we don’t have any postitions for “puling milksops” at this time…”
    Not only that, but “Injury only to feelings is not defamation; there must be loss of reputation.” http://www.britannica.com/bcom/eb/article/7/0,5716,30217+1+29733,00.html
    Egotistical as I am, I hardly think that anyone is going to say “I would be friends with Joe Poster, but Lexicon says he’s a dumbass, so fuck him.”

  2. I can post a thread titled “FIRE!” and have it say “FIRE!” and no one will get trampled. Well, people get trampled every day, no doubt, but it won’t have anythig to do with my thread.

  3. I don’t think that telling some one to pull their head out of their ass is a call to unlawful action. Unless it’s illegal to remove one’s head from one’s rectum in your state, which would explain a lot.

  4. Nowhere in any of my posts is there anything even closely resembling “hate speech”. Hmmm, I do recall one post where I say that I hate Michael Masterson, but come on, everyone hated that puke.

  5. I don’t tend to utter “fighting words” either. No one here really does. And that’s what this is about, so thanks for your help. If someone does utter “fighting words” they usually are tossed by an Admin, or avalanched by smarter people.

  6. I know the law, and I don’t have to walk on egg shells. I am not publishing slanderous or defaming material, nor am I preaching hate against a person or group of persons. I am not publishing heinous stories, nor am I condoning illegal activity. I am an individual, engaged in a discussion with other individuals about a topic. I could do this in a library, as long as no one raised their voice, or sobbed too loudly, as the case may be.

But thanks for the advice, as it were, I shall take pains to ensure that I am not put to the gulag for writing what I think about various topics on an internet message board.

Sheesh.

~Santi

19

I don’t think any of you are quite reading what dropzone is saying. Go ahead and use the language you want, say stuff how it is, speak Pittish. That’s what this place is for. However, don’t be a jerk and attack people personally. Disagree with their views, vehemently if you so desire, but don’t do so in such a way that makes you a jerk. Dropzone is not saying “Candy coat everything you say”. He is not saying “Don’t talk shit in the pit”. He’s saying don’t be assholes and jerks.

Now disagree with me how you so desire, but don’t be a jerk about it.

20

And WHATEVER YOU DO, NO PERSONAL ATTACKS!!! :rolleyes:

Look, DZ, I know the girls love that “the knight riding in on his white horse with his shining lance in his hand” stuff- but 1st, that ain’t no horse, that’s a goat, and 2nd; that ain’t no lance, that’s your…

Where do you get off thinking that smart, self assured young women like Nacho & Techchick need you to defend them? That is SO condescending that your post is WAY more insulting than anything that the other posters have said to them.