Coming to the US as a student? You must be a terrorist!

The BBQ Pit
1

There are times when I really start to wonder. Let me start with some caveats.

I studied for two semesters at a small college in Chicago, back in '85 (which was when I first came into contact with the SD). As a student, I had to have a student visa (called I-20). There was some paperworks, but 18 years later, my memory is a little hazy. I had to send in papers regarding what college, have a return ticket, show that I could support myself during my stay ASF. All pretty standard stuff. Back then, anyone travelling to Sweden had to have a visa.

I’m not trying to dictate how the US conducts its policy regarding this matter, but I just talked to a friend, and was really upset about what she told me.

For three weeks now, she’s been witing to get her I-20. The US embassy in Sweden has informed her that they’ve tightened up security since 9/11, and that there are a lot of forms to fill out and a lot of questions to answer. Among them:

  1. Current employer and name address and contact person with the three previous employers.
  2. All education, going back to kindergarten.
  3. Name of parents, and siblings.
  4. Name of clan or tribe (if applicable)
  5. All travels to countries outside Sweden during the last ten years.

On top of that is a personal interview with someone in the staff at the embassy in Stockholm.

So…? you think.
We have our reasons, here in the goode old US of A. If you don’t want to come here and study, stay the hell out.

But this is where it gets interesting. My friend, Maggie, will attend to semesters at a college in Atlanta. Because of this, she’s been up to her neck in red tape for a long time and is still waiting for her visa, even after school’s started.
However, if she wanted to go as a tourist or for doing business, then she wouldn’t need a visa at all. You see, Swedish citizens fall under the Visa Waiver program. The only reason she’s been subjected to the same treatment as someone coming from a potentially hostile country, is that she’s going to the US to study. And we all now how students are, don’t we… :sarcasm:

What the fuck is wrong. If a Swedish person would want to do some henious terrorist act in the US, she or he could just go there as a tourist.

I know and understand that 9/11 hit hard. I realize the need for tighter security, but isn’t this bordering on the ridiculous?

2

Maybe the difference is that the student visa allows the person to stay in the US for a longer period of time than they could as a tourist. I still think you have a point, though.

3

Without a visa, one can stay for 90 days, doing business or vacationing. This student visa will be valid Septembre trhough december, four months. Had it only been two months, the fact that a forrigner wants to study in the US, starts all of this, no matter the nationality.

Now, were I out to do harm to the US, its citizens or government (as the entry papers say), I surely wouldn’t enter the country as a student, I’d just get on a plane and go.

I do understand if INS is careful with people coming from Libya, N. Korea, Iraq, Syra, Jordania ASF. I also understand the reason for a background check. But if we, Swedish people, have been seen fit for the visa waiver program, why on earth all this, just because you’re a student.

My friend’s never been to the US before, and I’ve had to comfort her and reassure her that even though these things are screwy right now, she’s gonna have a wonderful time, telling her that I’ve never met an American who wasn’t hospitable and friendly. However, when you see Europeans her on the board and on other fora, showing doubt about US policies, this is just one more little reason we do so. And they keep adding up.

I know this rant is kinda lame. Mostly because it makes me more sad and upset, than angry.

4

I’m a little confused. You said your friend is coming here for 2 semesters, but the visa is valid for only four months (one semester)?

Be that as it may, I can sympathize with your friend’s visa headaches. I’ve had several friends come here from overseas (China, India) for school, and they have all gone through the same tedious process, plus some. (Didn’t she also have to show proof of financial assets, to demonstrate that she would be able to live here adequately without public assistance, and then be able to return home?) Part of the interview process is also apparently intended to sniff out those who might wish to overstay their visa and not go home. Maybe none of those things are an issue for a Swedish exchange student, but you have to realize that many people applying for a student visa are not here for only a semester. Personally I think the whole process is fraught with problems but surely you can see it would be folly to have yet another set of procedures just for short-term exchange students. The bureaucracy here is having a hard enough time dealing with the existing (uniform) rules.

By the way, the U.S. isn’t the only country with sometimes elaborate procedures for certain classes of visa. I’m a geologist and have traveled abroad for my work (both as a grad student and post-degree), and I can tell you that after witnessing other people’s trials and tribulations, I have NEVER attempted to travel as a student or as a scientist, because in either instance those categories would trigger massive confusion among consulate personnel. Fortunately the length of my stays have let me travel so far as a simple tourist, but I know some day that won’t be possible… and I’ll be going through a wringer like your friend is now. It’s unfortunate, but that’s life.

I wish her all the best and a fabulous time once she finally gets here. :slight_smile:

5

Meh, makes as much sense as the way the Swedes run things :stuck_out_tongue:
Despite being from another EU member state they made me go through “Green Card”-like interviews once every 6 months for 2 years in order to retain my residence permit. They gave me (as they bloody well should) a work permit right off the bat, but residency I had to earn… Gobshites. :smiley:

</swedebashing>
Love it here, but the it truely is the land of senseless bureacracy.

6

I feel your pain. Literally. Tell your friend that there’s at least one American that thinks all of this is a pain in the ass, and is very unlikely to catch anyone who needs catching, at least beforehand. Are they actually going to investigate all these forms before issuing visas, other than running a namecheck, which they don’t need all the extra forms to do? Especially since the “personal interview” generally lasts about 90 seconds.

Are consular personnel that psychic, that they can tell from a 90-second conversation and glancing at a couple of forms whether a person intends to commit a terrorist act? Give me a break.

Eva Luna, U.S. Immigration Paralegal

P.S. If your friend has any immigration questions, please feel free to post a GQ for her, and I’ll take a crack at it.

7

But these interviews are very crafty.

For instance:

Interviewer: Hello, Mr… uh… Bin Laden. Are you planning to blow up any buildings during your stay?

Bin Laden: Yes… I mean… No!

8

Eva Luna - it’s all done now. She’ll have her visa tomorrow (Thursday).

And to Sunfish - my rant is basically: why all the brouhaha just because she’s a student? People travelling to do business are not subject to this.

9

Honestly, I do understand what a pain the process is, and I don’t think most of it is really that useful. (Glad to hear your friend will have her visa now, btw.) But there really is a significant difference between folks coming for business or for study, and of the various places I’ve traveled to overseas, all countries have made the distinction.

It’s largely a matter of a given country wanting to control illegal immigration. People traveling on business are not going to stay all that long, because they presumably have job and/or family responsibilities back in their country of origin. This group is at a low risk of staying on illegally, so the vigorous background screening generally doesn’t apply (although there may be other bureaucratic hoops to jump through regarding transfer of currency, taxes, etc.) Students typically come to live for several years, though, until they have finished their degrees, and from the standpoint of immigration services in any country are at a greater risk for melting into the local population before or after they finish their degrees.

Of course, here in the US, now that paranoia has gripped part of the gov’t, one might also say that those student years could be spent making connections with Bad People that are planning harm. That is in fact exactly what happened with a number of the 9/11 hijackers. Hence the greater scrutiny.

I will not deny that the process here in the US has become a great big pain in the ass since 9/11, and as I said I’m not sure how effective the whole thing really is anyway w/r/t keeping an eye on potential terrorists. But part of your OP suggests that because your friend is Swedish and only coming for a year that she shouldn’t have to be going through this… and all I’m saying is that it’s asking a wee bit much to have different visa procedures for students in different circumstances. The gov’t hamsters are running slowly enough as it is.