Hi… I have quite a few questions that I would hope that some computer tech people here might be able to help me with:
I am studying for a Bachelor of Information Technology (BaInfTech) at QUT in Australia. I am going to major in Software Engineering. Within Software Engineering I am going to do all the A.I. electives.
Who has heard of the BaInfTech, because a previous thread highlighted that some people don’t know of it… I would hope that some people actually do know of it.
In the US would you call my choice of A.I. electives my minor or something like that?
What sort of jobs are in demand now and/or will be in the next 5-10 years? eg. Software Engineer, Data Communications, Information Systems, E-Commerce?
Should I specialize in A.I.? Is it a field of I.T. that is in high demand etc?
a) My University doesn’t offer Doctoral Research Programs in A.I. (Only Compiler, Operating Systems & Data Comms Research) so after I complete my Bachelor should I go to a uni with A.I. research for my Honors… or should I finish my Honors degree and then do my Doctoral at an A.I. uni/college?
b) What Universities/Colleges in the U.S. have Research Programs in A.I.? MIT comes to mind… but are there any others?
How much do I.T. people get paid in the U.S.?
What’s the difference between my degree and the Bachelor of Computer Science? or is it Bachelor of Math (Comp Sc.)?
Hehe I simulposted a very similar thread to yours. but to answer your questions with the best guesses I can. I’m mostly industry experience, so hopefully a academic can give you a better perspecive on that side.
Bachelors of science in Math, Comp Science(And I’m certain Info tech as well, I’ve never heard of the specific degree in America) are completely interchangeable for any computer job.
A.I. wouldn’t be a minor, that would be more like if you took a certain number of philosophy classes you would end up with a Philosophy major. There isn’t a universal system for what you would call a bunch of A.I. classes within Comp sci. Some schools would have a subtitled degree(ie. BS in Computer Science Sci:A.I.) some would call it a “concentration in” some might call it a “specialty in” and some might not really acknolwledge it at all. But whatever its called it will impress the right people on a job or grad school application.
Hard to answer. Programmers have had a pretty steady demand for a long time and will probably continue to do so. E-commerce is pretty over loaded, but in 5 years things may change a lot. Administrators seem to be pretty stron demand right now.
A.I. is probably stronger in Academic work than industry work. The demand isn’t overwhelming but certainly not a liability.
5a In the U.S. Doctoral research is not all that common. most computer geeks get their bachelors and head to industry. A few get their masters as well. Most of the Doctors I know either got their doctorate heading toward an academic career, or went back to school after years in industry.
b. Most larger schools with a science/enginnering (especially large state schools) will probably have an A.I. program. I haven’t looked for it, but I believe it’s pretty common.
Hehe, hard to answer. In a general sence it’s good to excellent. If I had to guess I’d say probably about 25-50% more than a average salary for experience. Significantly more than say teachers, but much less than lawyers or doctors.
see number 1. I really chave never any significant difference.
Well, I’m a “high-tech” person of that sort. But more importantly, I hire people like you, and see a lot of resumes.
Never heard of it.
No, more a “specialization”.
Things change so much. Right now, networking and communications is in a slump, but recovering. E-commerce doesn’t move as fast as it ought to. This is hard to answer.
If it is what you desire to do, then yes. But it is definitely not a field in any sort of demand that I can see. Neural network knowledge IS in demand, especially in the power industry.
Only get the Doctorate if you are going into research or teaching. The Masters is considered to be the “terminal” degree in the industry in the US.
One thing many non-US residents aren’t aware of is the huge difference in prices and costs of living across the 3000 miles that is the US. In the Midwest, which has a low cost of living, a BS degreed person in “IT” can make from $20,000 to $60,000 starting, depending on where and what they do. In California, this can range from $50,000 to $100,000, depending. Of course, the cost of living in Kansas seems to be about 1/2 to 1/3 that of California.
In truth, I wouldn’t really know if it is exactly equivalent.
Note that if you call yourself a Software “Engineer” in the US, this typically implies that your school had a close affiliation with an actual Engineering School, such as an Electrical and Comupting Department. Some companies are touchy about the use of the term “Engineer”. Mine absolutely will not hire you as an “Engineer” unless you can legally be an engineer (that is, be licensed as a P.E.). Most companies don’t care, though. Just something to be aware of.
I’ve been in the high tech industry for 10+ years now. I’m in Colorado, which is a hotbed of tech jobs.
Out here, IT is very different than engineering. IT people are network admins, DB admins, basically the people who keep the computers up and running. Engineers, programmers, and developers are the people who write software.
I’ve never seen a demand for AI, although I’ve never really looked for it.
Get a doctorate only if you want a doctorate. Out here, I don’t think it will buy you much in the way of salary or opportunity. Experience means way more than schooling, at least in this area.
Pay scale: entry level coding jobs pay between $45K and $60K or so. VB and web coding is at the bottom end of that scale, C++ is at the top end. Most salaries where I used to work, where the average engineer had about 8-10 years of experience, were in the 80K range. I was making a hair under 90K when I left, plus stock options that were actually worth some money. I think the top paid engineers, those with 20+ years experience, were making 110-120K, but that’s just a guess on my part.
Titles: I have no degree. My job title has been Software Engineer for the past 6 years. Most coding jobs come with that title in this area, regardless of your actual schooling or lack thereof.
I don’t really want to teach but I do want to research A.I. (I want to get paid well for doing it too). When you say terminal does that mean I will have difficulty getting a job with a PhD in IT?
I’ve heard of over-qualification disablility but I thought it was a theory or a myth… If you are over-qualified you wont get the job because you are too good and might take the job of the person who is hiring you. I’ll stick with it being a joke…
US$60,000 that’s AU$120,000 a year… WOW! I can’t wait to come to the US.
Anthracite who’s your employer and what sort of coding etc jobs do your people do… what sort of hours, are your employee’s contracted for project or do they work set hours… what are working conditions like (do you sit in a cube or is it really open and cool looking like in the movies [I’m not talking about office space, or dilbert]).
What I mean is that outside of teaching and research positions, the PhD often does not help qualify you for a job, nor get you hired in at a higher salary, nor allow you to advance faster. A Master’s typically will. At my company, a Master’s IT person fresh out of school starts 10% higher in salary than a Bachelor’s. A PhD person fresh out of school starts 10% higher in salary than a Bachelor’s also.
Well, I see it from this persepctive when I look to hire CS (computer science) people. A person with a PhD typically asks for a much higher salary than a person with a Masters. But they have no more real experience whatsoever that is going to help them work on my projects. In fact, they often are so focused on one area or topic that they are too specialized - they no-longer have a good, broad-based knowledge.
This is not just a bias of mine either. We have hired several PhD’s in the past, all of whom suffered from this same situation.
And all of whom quit within 3 years to teach. It takes approximately 4 years to be trained to do my job. I don’t need to train people on my buck for 3 years to have them go back to school.
Note those are starting salary ranges I was listing.
We work on projects for utilities and energy traders, banks, etc. You are supposed to work 40 hours, but in truth you work what needs to be worked. Oh, you won’t be fired for not working more than 40 hours - you just get a crap raise and no promotions.
Depending on the time of year and what I am doing, I work from 45-80 hour weeks. And get paid for 40. I can’t recall, other then when I was sick, when I worked a 40-hour week. Of course, for half of my nearly decade-long career I’ve been in Middle Management of IT stuff, so I have to work harder.
In return for putting this effort out and being good at it, I have been promoted early 5 times, and make near 6 figures.
But I’m also not really a coder. I’m a P.E. who worked her way up through the ranks coding engineering applications. Being a licensed engineer and expert coder makes me somewhat rare in the IT industry.
Open offices are not nearly as cool to work in as you think. They are very noisy, visually distracting (you keep seeing movement of others, and it really bothers you), and you have no privacy whatsoever. I know of few people who prefer an open office over the oft-slandered cubicles, once they try both.
Well, I’ve worked in the industry, have no degree but I am working on one.
A.I. is a very narrow field. If you want something that is more in demand you may think about IT with security as a specialty. Security is a huge problem that is not going to be fixed in the near future. It is also fun. Get paid to break into things.
As far as money goes, it depends on the job. As far as I can tell, coding is the bottom of the pay scale with IT stuff, DB and network admin, being the top.
Another example of regional differences. In Colorado this is exactly the opposite - an IT person makes way less than a DB admin, who makes way less than a coder. Coders are on the top of the pay scale out here.
Looks like your question have been answered quite well. A few things to think about that you didn’t ask.
Do you really have a knack for math, logic, etc?
Programming is inventing. When you are programming, generally, you are solving a problem that has never been solved before. It really is inventing.
I am doing very well in the field. I have no degree at all. (I am not saying my case is typical) I make hiring decisions. There is a glut of people coming out of school with a piece of paper saying they are qualified to write software. MOST will never in a million years be any good at it. Since the pay got decent in the field, ALOT of people that never had a specific interest in it, decided to get their degree in it because that is where the money is.
The people that have the knack are immediately apparent. The people who don’t have it can’t even see the difference between themselves and the others and wonder why their pay isn’t going up quickly to keep them around.
This probably comes across as a total “rain on the parade” post, but there is a reason for it.
The people who just got a degree in CS because that is where the money is get disillusioned pretty quick when they hit the market place. They were promised this big money and they just aren’t making it. I am making approx. $100k U.S. a year. I would not be surprised by a bonus this year of about half of that. I don’t have a degree at all. I can do the work.
I am not suggesting that I think you can’t do it. I hope you can. Unfortunately, most people entering the field believe that if they get the degree, they can do the work. Sadly, that just isn’t the case, and no one is telling them this.
Just because you know how to use a word processor and majored in English doesn’t mean you can write like Stephen King.
I’m the 500-year student/worker drone/girl Friday/etc., who also has the oh-so-wonderful task of assisting our CompSci students at my University. (That’s intended to be only partially sarcastic.)
Taking questions in turn…
I have heard of the Bachelors in I.T., and have seen it at some schools here. (One school had it stuck under ‘library sciences’?! Gah.) See my answer to the last question for more on this.
In the US would you call my choice of A.I. electives my minor or something like that?
Depends on the school. I haven’t seen (yet) a place that has A.I. as a full-fledged minor: usually it’s a concentration (or elective sequence as they call it where I’m at now). Some schools will list your concentrations on your degree, others won’t.
What sort of jobs are in demand now and/or will be in the next 5-10 years? eg. Software Engineer, Data Communications, Information Systems, E-Commerce?
Depends on where you’re at. Some areas would seem to have a glut of one thing, a dearth of another, and by going to the next major city you’ll have a different situation. E-Commerce seems to be in a glut overall, so far as I can see, but I don’t have enough knowledge to say anything more specific. Your best bet (assuming you’re going into the workforce) would be to get a soild grounding in as many areas as you can handle in school, rather than trying to specialize right off the bat.
Should I specialize in A.I.? Is it a field of I.T. that is in high demand etc?
I don’t see much demand for strict A.I., beyond academic and perhaps military or game applications. Branching out into neural networking (as mentioned by someone else in this thread: for some reason my eyes simply refuse to see who said it) would give you more oppertunities.
a) My University doesn’t offer Doctoral Research Programs in A.I. (Only Compiler, Operating Systems & Data Comms Research) so after I complete my Bachelor should I go to a uni with A.I. research for my Honors… or should I finish my Honors degree and then do my Doctoral at an A.I. uni/college?
The Doctoral is really only worth it if you’re going into academics or heavy research. Many places want you to have ‘real world’ experience, and by the time you’ve gotten that Doctorate the stuff you’ve learned during your Bachlor’s days may have become obsolete. It becomes a race between getting that higher degree in a reasonable amount of time, and spending enough time to keep the skills you’re learning current.
b) What Universities/Colleges in the U.S. have Research Programs in A.I.? MIT comes to mind… but are there any others?
University of Memphis has one [sub]Shh… don’t tell anyone… It’s a bit on the small side at the moment, but considering we have ‘only’ about 200 undergrads… ;)[/sub], but it is currently geared a bit more towards Graduate students.
How much do I.T. people get paid in the U.S.?
Depends on location, experience, and what sub-field you’re working in.
What’s the difference between my degree and the Bachelor of Computer Science? or is it Bachelor of Math (Comp Sc.)?
This depends almost entirely upon the Univeristy/College. Generally, if I see I. T. (also known as Information Management Systems or variations thereof), my knee-jerk reaction is that it’s more of a business orientated, tell you how to do stuff kind of thing. If I see Computer Science, then I think that it’s more theory, tell you why something is done this way kind of thing.
This gets modified by what department (if any) these degrees are assocated with: if they’re with Engineering, I assume they have more of a hardware, theory, and techincal orientation. If they’re with Math, they’re more of the scientific research and theory orientation. If they’re with Buisness, they’re more of the here-and-now orientation. One of the big problems I’ve seen is that each school treats their computer-related degrees differently, and it’s entirely possible to have an I.T. degree that is completely theory and math based and a C.S. degree that’s a business base. The only real way to tell them apart is to look at what courses they require for their degree. Lots o’ math? Probably theory oriented. Lots o’ buisness courses? Here-and-now and gearing you for mangement oriented. Lots o’ hardware related classes? Technically oriented.
And on preview, I agree with scotth’s assement of the situation. I’ll add that what I’ve seen recently are students coming out of school who are so used to working on the best and biggest that they can’t (or at the very least have a hard time) adapt to ‘less than optimum’ situations. (“Oh sure, this program works well, but you need 1G of RAM to run it!”, and variations thereof.) :rolleyes:
I also don’t have a CS degree. While I’ve been successful in the field, and have never regretted entering it, if I’d known I was going to be doing this work, I’d have definitely majored in CS. I regret missing out on all the theory, with its mathematical underpinnings. I’ve learned some of this material since, but not with the depth, cohesion, and concentrated focus that would have been the case if I’d studied it formally in college.
**Illuvatar, ** you’ve gotten a lot of good responses in this thread already. I’ll throw my two cents in, even though some of my responses may be redundant. to get my credentials out of the way, I graduated with just an Bachelors degree in Computer Science specializing in Artificial Intelligence. I’m the Chief Technology Officer of a software company here in the US, and I’ve been in the technology industry for 26 years now. Way back then, AI was in its infancy… simple board game playing and pattern recognition was about as advanced as it got.
I’ve never heard of it either.
Depends on the school I believe. An official minor has a defined curriculum. I’ve heard what you’re doing (and what I did) referred to as an “area of specialization”.
Yes to all the above. In spite of the fact that the dot-com bubble has burst and there are many programmers still out of a job right now, the long term outlook is extremely good.
Not a lot of demand in industry. I can’t speak for academia. There are isolated fields that need those types of skills, but the numbers are small. For example, at my last job I managed about 400 developers. We had only one person who had any training in AI… and that’s all we needed. YMMV.
By Honors, I assume that translates to Masters? As others here have indicated, an advanced degree is not necessary outside of academia. In fact, again as has been stated already, it can actually limit your opportunities.
Sorry, I can’t help you here.
Interestingly enough, we just did a market salary survey to ensure that we’re paying our developers appropriately. For the people that work for me, the median of the comparable market total compensation (which includes bonuses) ranged depending on the job from $54,000 to $104,000 US. (This data was a national average for companies under 1000 employees).
Most people I hire have Computer Science degrees, or MIS (Management Information Systems) degrees. The CompSci people sometimes come out of Math or Engineering disciplines. The MIS people often come out of the Business school.
After you complete it your degree looks like this “Bachelor of Information Technology (Honors)” and then people are suppose to be impressed.
I think it’s like a mini PhD.
The masters is 1.5 years and an extract of the overview looks like this:
**So if I were going to continue on to get a PhD then I would choose the Honors program because it’s researched based and it’s shorter. But should I do the honors and then the doctoral or should I do the masters and then go into the industry?? I’m confused please help me. **
P.S. If I have a GPA > 6.5 by the end of first semester in the third year I can concurrently start the honors program so I finish it 6 months after my Bachelor. So I am torn between choices…
WARNING
The following post contains a bombardment of information about my degree. If you suffer from a heart condition or don’t want to be blinded then please sheild your eyes. This will not cause lung cancer.
This is basically the Bachelor of Information Technology (I’ll add my notes in brackets):
Common First Year - Full time course structure
Code Title
Year 1, Semester 1
ITB410 Software Development 1 (Software Dev process and learn java)
ITB106 Foundations Of Computing (Logic and Discrete mathematics, Calculus and stuff, circuits and stuff; nand nor etc.)
ITB225 Introduction To Databases (SQL database stuff)
ITB412 Technology Of Information Systems (How computers work, the cpu etc, OS’s [filesystems etc]
Year 1, Semester 2
ITB107 Programming Laboratory (etc.)
ITB510 Data Communications (Use your imagination etc.)
ITB310 Organisational Information Systems
ITB411 Software Development 2
THEN you select your major from:
Data Communications
Electronic Commerce
Information Systems
Software Engineering
OR Integrated majors:
Data Comms. & Info Sys
Data Comms. & Soft Engineering
**I’m choosing Software Engineering cause I am really good at programming and I like it alot:
Year 2, Semester 1
ITB421 Software Development 3
ITB524 Internetworking
KWB010 Communication For The It Specialist
ITB420 Computer Architecture
Year 2, Semester 2
ITB427 Concurrent And Distributed Systems
ITB432 Advanced Programming Laboratory
ITB424 Software Engineering Principles
ITB448 Object Technology
**Year 3, Semester 1 **
ITB433 Programming Languages
Software Engineering Elective Unit
Software Engineering Elective Unit
Software Engineering Elective Unit
**Year 3, Semester 2 **
Block 3 Elective Unit
Block 3 Elective Unit
Block 3 Elective Unit
Block 3 Elective Unit
Software Engineering Elective Units
ITB454 Software Quality Assurance
ITB461 Foundations Of Neurocomputing
ITB464 Modern Compiler Construction
ITB442 Foundations Of Artificial Intelligence
ITB466 Component Technology
ITB470 Windows 2000 System Programming And Administration
ITB469 Unix Systems Programming And Administration
ITB447 Project
ITB471 Software Development For The Web
ITB468 Software Engineering Project
Students who complete the Cooperative Education Program will substitute ITB906 for ITB432
ITB445 Special Studies 2
ITB434 Parallel Computing
ITB463 Pattern Recognition
ITB458 Java And Extensible Programming
ITB441 Graphics
ITB444 Special Studies 1
algernon you specialized in A.I. did it help you? Did you use it alot or did you do it cause it was fun or the fad at the time? Do you still use your knowledge there? Cause that will effect what units I should choose for my electives.
Anthracite you said that NN knowledge is in big demand at the moment, so that confirms my choice there.
Currently I am thinking of doing:
ITB442 Foundations Of Artificial Intelligence
ITB461 Foundations Of Neurocomputing
ITB434 Parallel Computing
ITB463 Pattern Recognition
I don’t know what block 3 elective is but I think it’s pretty much any subject from all the other majors. But I’d still do the following other 4 electives:
ITB468 Software Engineering Project
ITB469 Unix Systems Programming And Administration
ITB464 Modern Compiler Construction
ITB444 Special Studies 1 (SS is basically what ever is the latest in IT at the time; the professor won’t write the unit until just before it starts. So If it’s good then I’ll do it otherwise I’ll do ITB466 Component Technology)
Can you guys/girls let me know what would be valuable in the computer industry? I am very good at math/logic and programming. And I like pretty much everything.
Thanks for your help. And after I finish my degree I’ll contact some of you and ask for a job
My office does a lot of industry-specific software development, no AI. I’ve been doing this for almost twenty years, and I’ve never run across someone with a specifically AI position. This might be because I’m on a “business track”, I don’t know.
What sorts of things are currently considered to be AI? I’m thinking maybe games and military stuff like guidance systems. Pure research positions would probably be hard to come by.
Just filling in what’s “hot” now in the Real World job market for AI types.
Data-mining. Corp. datasystems or spanning the Internet. Buzzword heavy but some real stuff is being done.
Biometrics: IDing people by fingerprint, iris, voice, face, etc. Heavy on pattern recognition.
Natural Language recognition (usually coupled with Voice Rec.). The Next Big Thing (for the last 30 years). The heavy bull filled academic stuff unsurprisingly doesn’t work in the real world. Whatever you do, don’t think in terms of FFTs.
Of course, if you start studying one of these now, they’ll all be dead/saturated by the time you get a degree. Insert pyschic powers disclaimer.
In the USofA, Carnegie Mellon is the best in terms of “practical” AI.
BTW: I have seen a lot of bias in the US along the lines of IT is for managers, CS is for the Real Workers. I would always hire the CS major over the IT major when actual results are needed.
Another Chief Technology Officer checking in. My company, however, is involved in commercial applications based on AI. We do human-like interaction over networks, and our server-side components make use of AI goal resolution concepts. We employ people with degrees in computer science, AI and cognitive sciences (all levels – B.Sc., M.Sc. and Ph.D.).
The term “Information Technology” is often taken to mean computer systems infrastructure (networks, hardware, system software, etc.), but that’s by no means the only possible definition. In any major market (at least in North America), you are likely to find jobs in any of a broad range of specialties. I have been surprised at the number of AI experienced candidates that I’ve interviewed here, for instance.
With regard to relative salaries, the Chief Architect (a software engineer/programmer-type) is the highest paid person working for me. However, the second highest paid individual is the Network Operations person. At my last position, I had five programmers all earning well in excess of $100K (Canadian), and another six earning more than $80K.
My advice would be to find something that you are interested in and can get good at. That will ultimately be the biggest determiner of how much you end up earning. If you’re good enough at what you do, you should have no trouble finding someone who values that skill enough to make it profitable for you.
1. Who has heard of the BaInfTech, because a previous thread highlighted that some people don’t know of it… I would hope that some people actually do know of it.
I have seen things such as B.S. (I.T.) but not a full fledged B.I.T.
2. In the US would you call my choice of A.I. electives my minor or something like that?
A minor is a concentration of courses in a field outside your major. So if you have taken a bunch of courses in history you may be able to be graduate with a minor in history, depending on the whether you can meet the requirements for a minor.
3. What sort of jobs are in demand now and/or will be in the next 5-10 years? eg. Software Engineer, Data Communications, Information Systems, E-Commerce?
Software engineering is always in demand. Networking and security should also be good. IS is just writing reports yuck.
4. Should I specialize in A.I.? Is it a field of I.T. that is in high demand etc?
There are things such as expert systems that uses AI, though AI is not a big thing in the industry.
5.
a) My University doesn’t offer Doctoral Research Programs in A.I. (Only Compiler, Operating Systems & Data Comms Research) so after I complete my Bachelor should I go to a uni with A.I. research for my Honors… or should I finish my Honors degree and then do my Doctoral at an A.I. uni/college?
Complete your bachelor’s, then decide whether you want a doctoral. It’s only necessary if you want to do research.
b) What Universities/Colleges in the U.S. have Research Programs in A.I.? MIT comes to mind… but are there any others?
6. How much do I.T. people get paid in the U.S.?
No idea.
7. What’s the difference between my degree and the Bachelor of Computer Science? or is it Bachelor of Math (Comp Sc.)?
I took a look at your syllabus and found it has a general lack of theoretical subjects. As a matter of fact it seems kind of weak. AFAIK most bachelor degrees are 4-year studies, so there’s more “body” to them, so to speak.
Lots. A friend of mine did neural networks at Boston University, a couple went to Princeton, one went to Columbia, etc. I don’t want to bore you with a silly list
Masters are usually known as “terminal” degrees because they don’t lead to anything else - at least in terms of higher degrees - unless it’s a very specialised master degree from research.
Generally, master degrees are designed for those who majored in a different principle in their undergraduate studies. So I can have a B.S. in Computer Science and a M.S. Psychology.
AFAIK, master degrees don’t cover more material, or more advanced material, than their undergrauate counterparts. Sure, there are many advanced graduate courses, but those are designed for doctoral students.
too). When you say terminal does that mean I will have difficulty getting a job with a PhD in IT?
**