Company's sick leave policy

My company supposedly has an unlimited sick leave policy: in theory, you can take as many sick days as you need. In the past I’ve worked for companies that allowed a specified number of sick days (usually 1 per month, accumulating for a year); this led to a “use it or lose it” attitude, and almost everyone used exactly the number of allotted sick days per year. I worked for one other company that had an unlimited sick leave policy, and it worked wonderfully for both employee and employer. Most employees used only 3 or 4 sick days a year, unless they had a lengthy illness.

At my present employer, one’s unlimited sick days are subject to approval by one’s manager. My manager happens to be a micro-managing control freak asshole. I have some health problems (diabetes, several bouts of pneumonia). One year I took 5 sick days, and my manager called me into his office and reamed me out for taking too many sick days. I asked him how many sick days we were actually allowed under the unlimited sick leave policy, and he said, “zero”.
On several occasions when I called in sick, he was extremely rude and abusive. One time he kept me on the phone for over an hour, verbally abusing me for something that occurred the previous day. It would’ve been understandable for him to want information about the incident (which ultimately amounted to nothing), but he wasn’t after information – he was simply trying to make me miserable. Knowing what I’ll face when I call in sick, I have to be pretty sick to do it, which means I’m not up to defending myself or standing up to this asshole.

I finally figured out that the way the game is played is that you go to work no matter how sick you are. After an hour or two, it’s obvious to everyone that you’re miserably sick, and Mr.Manager tells you to go home, making himself look like a caring, compassionate guy. Meanwhile, one’s coworkers have been exposed to whatever you brought in, and they get to go through the routine in a couple of days.

Additionally, the company’s policy is that you can take only 40 hours of contiguous sick leave before you are placed on short-term disability at 50% pay. You can come back to work for one day after missing 40 hours and qualify for another 40 hours, but this isn’t practical if you’re in the hospital with pneumonia or a heart attack. According to my manager, it is strictly against company policy to use vacation time for sick leave, but he’s such a nice guy that he will bend the rules if you’re in the hospital. No one really believes that he would “bend the rules” if it were actually against company policy, because his number one concern is covering his own ass.

My company is very concerned with its image as “a great place to work”. The company likes to tout its liberal, caring policies. The truth is that workers are intimidated into coming to work sick, endangering the health of both the employee and coworkers, and that employees are forced to use their vacation time to avoid being put on short-term disability for a 2-week illness.

Your manager seems like a wonderful man. I’d like to give him a nice big kiss on the mouth. When I have strep throat, that is. Then refuse him any sick time.

Prick.

If it’s a very large company, and you know that doing so isn’t likely to destroy your career prospects (perhaps because you don’t have any with your current boss anyways), going to HR may be worth a shot. They’re not always just shills, especially if there’s some kind of harassment going on

Is there some reason why you would stay on the phone with him for an hour while you’re ill so he can berate you? “He’s my boss” is not an answer.

Next time, call in before he gets there and leave a voice mail.

My 78-year-old boss treats us the same way. We don’t have an HR department because she manages this place as a dictator, and the Board rubber-stamps all her decisions. (This is a not for profit retirement village with over 100 employees.)

When I broke my ankle and needed a day off to have it set, she acted like I did it on purpose. If someone is in the hospital, they are accused of malingering. So last week, like all the other employees here do, I came to work sick and guess who is sick this week. Yes. My boss! She has lost her voice and looks and feels terrible. Sometimes there is justice.

My boss has no problem with us using the two sick days we’re allotted each year. But if you want to take a vacation day, watch out! Now, we only get five days (one week) of vacation every year with no chance of that ever increasing. And God forbid you try to take all five at the same time! Even if I take one day off, and tell him two months beforehand, he has to ask me three fucking times that week if I’m still taking that day off.
Aren’t bosses great?

Metacom, I looked into filing a complaint with HR, and (I swear I am not making this up) they have a list of things an employee may file a grievance about (e.g., racial discrimination, sexual harrassment). If your complaint isn’t on the list, they won’t talk to you.

Otto, The rule is that we must contact the manager prior to the start of our shift. He has a home phone, an office phone, and a cell phone. In the unusual case that he doesn’t answer any of these, you can leave a message, and he will call you back.

tdn, Kiss away. The manager himself does take days off when he’s sick, as well as when his wife or parents or grown children are sick. Quite often he doesn’t even bother to tell anyone he’s not coming in.

Man, I hate that shit. Last week I think there was a thread about your worst job experience. I didn’t post to that, not because I never had a horrible job, but because the one that topped the list was so horrible I didn’t know where to start.

Well, I start with the boss. But there were so many problems with him that I still wouldn’t know which of his many many many faults to list first. I will give you this one, though:

When the holiday season rolled around, we collectively asked how much time we’d get off for Xmas. None, he said. He didn’t believe in Xmas (or Xianity) so we had to work right through the holiday, including the 25th itself. He, however, was going to Florida for two weeks for a Winter Solstice festival, which was very important for him spiritually.

I believe this is around the time when covert resentment of him turned to downright civil disobedience. Everyone went away. Every single one of us. He threatened to fire us, but we reminded him of the last time he did that, and all of the fired employees danced on his desk for an hour, them left him in the lurch.

I worked for a lab with (what they called) a generous sick leave policy. A day per month.

I had to call in sick once because LilMiss was literally puking everywhere. My manager answers the phone, I tell him I would not be in as she was quite ill. He proceeded to ramble about what a great company it was because they would allow me to take sick time because she was ill. After about five minutes I cut him off stating LilMiss had just regurgitated on the phone (she had), and hung up.

When I was back at work a few days later, I received a long lecture about hanging up on a supervisor. :wally

I guess I don’t get it. If I am sick, what good am I to the company? What good is it when whatever bug I have spreads to everyone else? When my child is sick, and I am the only active parent, it’s my responsibilty to care for her, work be damned.

There’s nothing to say to this except:

:rolleyes:

So let me get this straight:

Your company has unlimited paid sick days. You have taken these days, and although you Manager is admittedly a dick, he complies with this policy. Yet, you’re bitching because you can only take over 40 hours off with pay, before they lower you to 50% pay.

Wow I’ll bet there are plenty of folks who would absolutely love your problems. Most companies give roughly three days and then you lose PTO. The only company I’ve ever worked for that had unlimited sick days, was a biopharmaceutical company, and they couldn’t have sick people in the clean suites without risking product contamination. However, the policy was indeed abused. People took sick days for their kids, for their parents and for their spouses, as well as for themselves. This was not the intention of the policy.

By the way, what exactly is your definition of “Short-term disability”. I’m guessing that over 40 hours, and, using your examples; a heart attack and pneumonia which requires hospitalization, is practically the definition of short-term disability.

You’re not getting it straight–you’re going off to the left in a broad arc and then looping back before going through a curly-q and ending in a pretzel-type position.

She’s bitching because her manager is making decisions that are contrary to her companies policy and giving her shit when she actually does need to take a sick day.

I don’t think so Metacom. It seems to me she took 5 days in one year and still has the same job. Moreover, she admits she has called in on “several” occasions and yet remains employed.

The major complaint is not with the company sick policy, but with the boss, who may or may not be in compliance. If she doesn’t want to hear shit from the boss than she needs to be more aggressive with HR. I’m sure she can be creative in her complaint enough that she can either squeeze it into one of the existing categories, or she could just do what I’d do and set up an appointment without telling them why. I have a hard time believing that HR won’t hear about a complaint about management not following company policies.

However for all of the bitching lainef I suggest that next time you call in, you should prepare in advance. Take some water and wads of toilet paper, and let it soak for a while. If the boss doesn’t let you get off the phone, you ‘vomit” while he is on the other end. Just slowly pour your mixture into the toilet while making barfy sounds. Then tell him you’re still sick and can’t talk. I believe he should get off the phone at that time.

I’m bitching about the hypocrisy of the company for touting their great benefits, such as unlimited sick leave, which doesn’t exist in reality. The reality is that we are intimidated into taking fewer sick days than people who are alloted a specific number of sick days. I’m aware that many people would be grateful for what I have. The primary reason I choose to work for a big corporation is the benefits.

“Short-term disability” refers to the period of time in which the company reduces your pay because you are unable to be at work. You can be on short-term disability for a couple of months before being put on “long-term disability” with a further reduction in pay. If you will not be able to return to work at all, there is “permanent disability,” which I’m guessing is a tiny bit of pay to help till you get to retirement age. I think the company still pays its part of your insurance premium if you’re on permanent disability.

The company says it offers unlimited sick leave, but if you need to miss just six days in a row, you would be put on short-term disability (50% pay) unless your manager says you can use your vacation time. It is fairly common for an employee to need about 2 weeks for a serious illness. This may be the only sick time they take all year – 10 days, which is less than most companies that restrict you to a certain number of sick days per year. Again, I’m complaining about the hypocrisy. I’ve seen very very sick people struggle into work for a day to avoid having their salary cut in half.

In my experience, people will meet your expectations as a boss. If you don’t set a limit on sickdays, and tell people to use their best judgment, most people will come in even if they have the sniffles or whatever, and not abuse the policy.

If, on the other hand, you set a strict limit on sick days and generally make it clear that you assume all employees are malingerers waiting to happen, the employees will use every single sick day allowed, even if they use a few just to go fishing.

I had a boss who gave us combined sick and vacation leave. As a result, everyone hoarded up their days off (never know if you’ll get bronchitis in late November). Then he got pissed because no one was in the office the last two weeks of December.

He was also quite sure that any illness could be cured by drinking a can of soda, then refilling the can with water all day and drinking it. Yes, it had to be a can of soda. Otherwise, the magic wouldn’t work.

My current boss has barfed on me, poked me in the eye, and routinely calls me late at night to attend to her needs. Much like my last boss, she acts completely infantile, but at least she has the excuse of being an actual infant.

ROFLMAO

I have an answering machine. I refuse to answer the phone for business purposes after 9 pm or before 7 am, mrAru’s military requirements were the only exception to that policy for the last 15 years. She would be shit out of luck.

NOBODY pays me enough to interfere with my sleep. My time is mine. I don’t have to babyst servers, or aything particularly crucial. If they leave a number and I decide to call them back I will.

Just like if it is after 9pm, and you arent bleeding or in the hospital, DON’T call me up to discuss your stupid sister…call in an emergency not to chat…When I am employed, I tend to get up at 0430 or 0500…I am NOT going to sit up until all hours of the might and miss my sleep!

My employment gives us 10 days a year. But of course, you’d better be one foot in the grave before you even think about using any of them. My supervisor is not terribly strict, her first question is usually “When can you make up the time?”

She came to work with bronchial pneumonia, after being ordered by the Doc, and her boss to go home and rest, because she was VERY contagious. She stayed for four hours and was back at work the day after the next, still sick. Across from her desk was another girl with health issues that could’ve easily caught what she was hacking all over the office.

I’ve come to work more than once to find an ambulance parked out front. I told one of the supervisors, when people feel the need to come to work in that condition, it’s time to ease up on the attendance policy.

My only beef with my current job (and the one that I hope to stick with for a few years) is that we’re not officially given ‘sick days’. We’re given 13 days combined vacation and sick leave - which is a decent amount of time off for my first year (especially since I want to take time off for my wedding and honeymoon in September), plus I’m working summer hours which allows me to take every Friday off during the summer. However, we are severely discouraged from calling off. Regardless of what’s wrong with you, whether you’re in the hospital in emergency surgery or just at home barfing up a lung, it’s considered an ‘unscheduled’ absence, and works against us both in our incentive pay and our profit sharing (If the company turns a profit in the month, a certain percentage of it is distributed among the employees who don’t earn an incentive, like my department. Just to give an idea of how good that can be - although I’m still a temp for another month, my co-worker figured what I would have made this month just on a whim - I would have taken home an extra $1000 this month -damn!). However, if we have an unscheduled absence, our profit sharing is immediately cut in half. It doesn’t matter what the absence was for, it’s automatically cut. So, most people are dragging themselves into the office even on their deathbed because they don’t want to lose their profit. I’m convinced that’s the reason I’ve caught three colds in the past two and a half months.

Granted, it’s definitely cut down on some major attendance problems, but it certainly does penalize those who do have a legitimate illness. Of course, if that’s the only issue I have regarding HR issues with this company, that’s a decent one to have.

Ava

Well, that’s one of the reasons why I lumped everything (sick, vacation, optionals) into P.T.O. (paid time off). It gets used whenever your off for anything…and when you drop to 0 hours left, you forfeit any planned days off until you’ve earned enough time to cover it.

Is this an American thing?

Im in the UK, and whilst i have only had two jobs, both let you hve time off (on full pay) if you are sick. My mother has recently had a heart attack, from which she has thankfully recovered, but she got 3 months (on full pay) on sick leave. We also seem to get more holiday days than Americans (I get 25 + bank holidays). What’s behind these differences?