The rules concessions agreed to by McCarthy are going to get adopted. He’s not going to betray what he promised to the Freedom Caucus to get their votes. And there’s no “moderate Republican” revolt that’s going to materialize at this point – or ever was going to materialize, frankly.
Gift link
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This is what happens when a political party, year after year, systematically destroys the norms and institutions of democracy. This is what happens when those expert at tearing things down are put in charge of governing. The dysfunction has been building over years of government shutdowns, debt-default showdowns and other fabricated crises, and now anti-government Republicans used their new majority to bring the House itself to a halt.
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He agreed to allow any member of the House to force a vote at will to “vacate” his speakership — essentially agreeing to be in permanent jeopardy of losing his job. He agreed to put rebels on the Rules Committee, giving them sway over what gets a vote on the House floor, and in key committee leadership posts. He agreed to unlimited amendments to spending bills, inviting two years of mayhem. He agreed to other changes that make future government shutdowns and a default on the national debt more likely, if not probable.Perhaps worst of all, the McCarthy-aligned super PAC, the Conservative Leadership Fund, agreed that it would no longer work against far-right extremists in the vast majority of Republican primaries — a move sure to increase the number of bomb throwers in Congress. Essentially, McCarthy placated the crazies in his caucus by giving up every tool he (or anybody) had to maintain order in the House.
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Lengthy and detailed argle-bargle article. Blow by blow from a reporter who was there, smelling the cigar smoke and B.O. in the hallways.
I could be wrong but I thought one of the sacrosanct rules in congress is to always, always, always deliver on a promise made with another member of congress, even if done in private. It’s the grease that allows the wheels of government to spin at all. Break that unwritten rule and likely no one will ever deal with you again since everyone has to rely on it.
Congressman A supposedly promises Congressman B that he will support pet project bb in return for support of project aa. After project aa passed, Congressman B denies there was ever an agreement.
Who do you believe and who do you “never deal with again”?
The whole thing sounds like a polite fiction.
How dare you not know everything?
Then it gets around that Congressman B (or A - it’s a bit confusing) can’t be trusted and no one will ever deal with him again.
It’s very rare for a politician to break a clear, specific promise to take a concrete action – e.g. “if you vote for me to Speaker, I will appoint you to the Armed Services Committee.” That’s why it’s rare for a politician to make a clear, specific promise to take a concrete action. That’s when you start to get into “assurances” – e.g. “I’ll do everything I can to help pass your project.” If it ends up getting stripped out by the Senate? “I really tried!”
Remember, there is no court that rules on evidence in this. There is only reputation and if you get a rep for breaking agreements you are likely to find it difficult to make any agreements in the future.
Maybe a representative can get away with it once or twice in years but I suspect that’s about it.
I worked at the Chicago Board of Trade and it was often said on the floor that, “Your word is your bond.”
Sometimes guys would break their word and it would ruin them. (And occasionally led to some physical fights.) Mostly, every kept a promise made. Even if it hurt them in the short term it was in their best interest for the long term. I think congress is similar in this respect.
Mostly they save their promise breaking for their constituency.
Let’s have this discussion in this thread.
I don’t think any of them are going to reveal any private discussions at this point, so I doubt there is available evidence to be had. But several Dems have indicated to various news sources that approaches were made. I’m taking their word on that at this point and you may choose to not, obviously.
I do think moderate Republicans will sink the rules if the rules as negotiated will essentially destroy the House of Representatives. None of them will have a job if they render the House moot. At least, not after the 2024 election.
Can you show me some? That’s the exact evidence that I would like to see, and I would believe them. So far all I’ve seen is the Omar quote I posted and the reporting on the AOC discussion with Gaetz a couple days ago, in which she said there were no discussions being had. I’d love to see what you read.
We shall have to agree to disagree about this for now and see who is right on Monday. See ThelmaLou’s Post gift link above. If McCarthy is willing to do it - and he did it - then I think the rest will follow.
Probably no formal discussions but I’d be surprised if people with friends across the aisle didn’t have some speculative what-if discussions to kill boredom during the down time.
I hope you are right but I have seen no evidence of this mythical “moderate republican.” Maybe they exist but they have done nothing to make themselves known. The supposed moderates (only in comparison to the Freedom Caucus) just capitulated to the Freedom Caucus in a big way.
What I heard, not read. It was mentioned several times by MSNBC reporters during the coverage yesterday when they spoke directly with Democratic members of the House. I’ve seen nothing in print as yet, and frankly I don’t expect to.
I’m thinking only of the newly-minted crop who took seats from traditionally Democratic districts, mostly in New York. I agree there are no other “moderate Republicans,” and we don’t yet know for certain that these will be, either. But they won’t win reelection in 2024.
Like this guy?
Wow, I sure didn’t see that one coming!
I think we can put Mr. Santos in a class by himself, don’t you?
Definitely. Although for all the mess he is in I was still surprised at this Alt-Right gesture. Talk about doubling down!
I’m looking forward to the House eating its young during the next two years. The ultra-righties aren’t done by a long shot. They’ll demand more and more concessions for their votes on important legislation and the rest of the Rs will reach a squeal point somewhere along the line. On top of which nothing that they pass that is part of the right’s more onerous agenda will ever get past the Senate or the White House.
Well, I believe you, but I am unable to locate any videos with Dems discussing this from MSNBC or elsewhere. (This was, admittedly, a brief search). There is a video from a couple days ago of AOC saying the Dems are open to negotiating, but that it was up to the McCarthy to approach them, not the other way around. That’s not on point anyway, since that was about negotiating the Speaker vote, not the rules adoption vote.
In any case, until I see some evidence or statements from Dems that these negotiations are actually happening, I am left with my opinion that it will happen when hell freezes over. (And by “it” here, since this conversation started in the other thread, I mean moderate republicans joining with democrats to vote down the house rules as negotiated by McCarthy).
They will just blame bad government on Biden in the next presidential election.
The Democrats are the party that says government will make you smarter, taller, richer, and remove the crabgrass on your lawn. The Republicans are the party that says government doesn’t work and then they get elected and prove it.
~ P. J. O’Rourke