Conservatism is "based on faith"?

My best friend is a conservative Christian, and I, a liberal atheist, tend to avoid discussing anything religious or political with her. However, a while ago, during a mostly unrelated conversation, she tangentially observed how interesting it is that “there are not very many conservative atheists. Of course, I think that’s because a lot of conservatism is based on faith.”

This statement intrigued me, and I considered asking her what she meant by it, but, per my policy, did not. Now I am wondering: How prevalent is this sentiment among conservative Christians, and why?

I am not surprised that conservatism and Christianity are usually linked, even (or especially) in the minds of the conservative Christians; but I have long seen them as occupying a common mindset, rather than causing each other. Generally I have assumed that Christians at least pretend that their politics are defensible by reason rather than blind faith; they do not claim to “just have faith” in Bush as they would in Jesus. Yet here my friend seems to openly state this is not the case.

To put it another way, I have long thought that conservatives consider their view the objectively correct one, with or without a God; their faith just helps them discover the truth. But my friend’s statement suggests that, if you do not accept the Christian God, there is no real reason to accept conservatism either.

I can understand faith influencing some issues, such as abortion or same-sex marriage; but how can it lead one to support, for example, the Iraq war (about which my friend seems to feel particularly strongly), besides fostering an “Us vs. them” attitude that no one would admit to possessing? Could a Christian argue coherently for their support of the Iraq war, on the basis of their belief in God and the Bible?

In short, is my friend’s view more common than I think, or is she more eccentric than I think, or am I misinterpreting her?

Conservatism in general is based on the assumptions that what is, is right; that what worked well enough in the past will work well enough in the future; that the values and assumptions in which we were raised to believe are, after all, valid ones. In other words, it does not require any great imaginative “leap of faith” to think like a conservative – but it does require a certain intellectual sloth and quietism, a certain reluctance to engage in iconoclastic re-examinations of things; and that is “faith,” of a kind. (This applies to what most people think of when they hear the word “conservative” without further qualification; it does not apply to all variants of “conservative” political thought, such as foreign-policy neoconservatism, or radical libertarianism.)

First of all, you have to define what you mean by “conservative”. Even the simplest definition still requires it to be broken down into social conservatism and economic conservatism. Your friend may be talking about social conservatism that promotes strong family values, reluctance to accept alternative lifestyles, etc. That probably is influenced by stron Christian beliefs of a certain strain. I have never met an atheist that was all that socially conservative either (other there are bound to be a few somewhere).

Economic conservatism, however, is a certain set of beliefs about how government should run, defense, tax structures, and redistribution of wealth should be handled. There may be a coorelation with religious beliefs here too but it is far from obvious. There are many atheists, agnostics, and every other type represented here. It is not necessary to have any particular religious beliefs at all to decide that economic conservatism is the best business plan for our country.

For the record, I am an agnostic libertarian/economic conservative.

You were doing fine, here. (Based on a sort of “commonly accepted, traditional” definition of conservatism.)
But you lost it with

I would note that it probably took a certain amount of iconoclastic re-examination for a lot of people brought up in the traditions of the New Deal and the Great Society to decide to look around for a different set of ideals and flock to the Republican banner over the last 25 years.
By interjecting loaded terms such as “sloth,” you’ve poisoned the discussion at its inception.

Well, this can be turned around quite easily, since most political philosophies of the left are also based on faith. Faith that mankind can be remolded into the socialist ideal, faith in a government that can provide for all without massive corruption and sloth, faith that revolution is inevitable and will spread worldwide.

There’s lots of faith in politics, and not all of this faith is toward a god. Much of it is toward other entities that can be just as inspiring, yet might turn out to be as fleeting or fictional.

Conservatism = Fallacy of appeal to tradition.

Works for me.

Actually I’ve wondered about this a little. I have known some liberal theists, but I have met very few conservative atheists, to the best of my knowledge. Obviously there can’t be a perfect correlation, but I’ve occasionally wondered if there is a correlation at all. Perhaps we should conduct some studies on it. :smiley: ;j

For the record, I’m a flaming moderate. Actually, I’m pretty moderate on most issues, but on some things I lean more one way or the other…so they seem to balance out…heh. I’m also a lapsed Christian, curious but apathetic, and somewhat agnostic…if that makes any sense at all. :slight_smile:

I’ve known plenty of atheist or agnistic conservatives, but then I hang around with conservatives more than most folks here.

My cousin is one. He’s a scientist, quite atheist, and strongly conservative in the economic sense. Socially, he’s a touch more moderate, but well to the right of this board.

Geez, nothing like, the post after Tom~ suggested that Brain Glutton had poisoned the well to the left, having you poison the well to the right.

I used to enjoy reading a perspective that differed from mine but was thought through and expressed firmly but without rhetorical slams. What happened?

Well, I was speaking purely from a philosophical viewpoint, and it is indisputable that most socialist ideologies require not only societal change, but attitude changes within individuals as well.

As always, how this translates into practical politics varies widely.

I certainly didn’t mean to poison the well. I just wanted to point out that political appeals to faith seem rather widespread, a fact I think few people would disagree with.

I hope that clears that up a little, Polycarp. I do want to keep this high level as well.

Careful there—you seem to be equating all faith with “blind faith.” Faith is not necessarily blind. In fact, the word “faith” is used in different ways, with different meanings, and one common meaning is basically as a synonym for “religion” or “religious beliefs.”

I think you’re right that conservatives consider their view the objectively correct one; but when you say “with or without a God,” things get a little problematic, because for anyone with strong, sincere religious beliefs, those beliefs are going to inform their beliefs about everything else. If you take God out of the picture, or fundamentally change their religious beliefs, they’d have to rethink what truth is.

Certainly there are liberal Christians and conservative atheists. But conservatism and religion do have some things in common, such as a respect for tradition and for authority (particularly God’s authority), and the notion that there is A Right Way and A Wrong Way to do things (a la Rush Limbaugh’s “The Way Things Ought To Be”).

But are you a radical centrist? :slight_smile:

That’s why I included a qualifier. The Reagan-era rebellion against the social contract that had prevailed since the New Deal was more in the nature of radical libertarianism than ordinary “conservatism.” And so is Bush’s present war on Social Security.

The role of faith in political thinking is placed in a broader perspective in this article: “Which Civilisation?” by Michael Lind, in Prospect, 10/25/01 – http://www.newamerica.net/index.cfm?pg=article&DocID=598:

In this analysis, both rationalism and romanticism could be said to be based on “faith,” but not of a supernatural nature. Rationalism (whether in socialist or libertarian form) is based on faith in the power of reason, romanticism on faith in certain esthetic values. Humanism (which exists in several “liberal” and “conservative” variants) is the political tradition requiring the least “leap of faith,” being relatively unambitious, and based on the lessons of experience.

Lind goes on to expressly refute claims that humanism is rooted in Christianity:

I think your cite is Cogent, but you must realise by now you will win no rhetorical points. For every factual reference to theist abuses (as defined from a humanist perspective) you will encounter refutations in the form of assertions that these abuses are mere perversions of supernatural law, which is reinvented on-the-fly to win the argument.

Well (hah!) I thought you were at the ‘poison’ stage when you equated all liberals with socialists.

Just as easy to say that all conservatives are fascists.

Just as easy, sure, and just as wrong. It’s clear that the political spectrum contains all forms and variations. Making an extremis case only hurts your argument.

Mr. Moto:

And in that sense, they are conservative. Fortunately, you did not label these positions as “liberal”. After all, in Russia the conservatives–the Communists–were in the left and the liberals–led by Boris Yeltsin–were on the right. And I’ve charactrerized political correctness as conservative as well; they have “faith” that racism remains a major force in society.

Liberalism is simply a willingness to re-evaulate and possibly reject established societal assumptions. Conservatism is the determination to continue embracing these assumptions. Liberalism can open the door to new assumptions, but once your embrace of these assumptions solidifies, it becomes a form of conservatism.

Conservatives accept social change. They just think that it needs to be gradual. Or, as Disraeli said:

This description is applicable only to the most trivial definition of “conservatism” (desire to maintain the status quo). Since many of the notions generally understood to be “conservative” in modern American politics reject the status quo (shrinking the size and scope of government, enacting new entanglements between marriage and state, etc), it is absurd to characterize conservatism generally as “sloth and quietism”.

Well, from a broader historical perspective, the New Deal/Great Society are a newfangled deviation from what had traditionally been the status quo (likewise, sexual abstinence is a return to traditional morality). OTOH, low tax, low regulation free market has been described as economic liberalism.