Hypothetical scenario: You are jaywalking in Denver and the police pull up behind you. You are quickly cuffed without warning but are not under arrest. The police make idle conversation and jokes with you for about 20 minutes before a detox van quietly parks a few feet behind you, and you are walked into it without any warning. You don’t want to be in the van and so you exit it and are pinned to the ground (where you are injured) and put into an ambulance instead where you are quickly sedated via IV. You wake up chained to a hospital bed in a dark room, not sure how you got there. Eventually someone comes in and informs you that you are now under arrest for obstruction and you are taken to jail for more than half a day even though you posted bond so they can run your prints, even though you have ID. The FBI’s RapBack database automatically informs your employer of your arrest and you are fired. Since you lost your job, you can no longer afford rent and you are now homeless as well. You do not want to accept a plea because you believe you are innocent, so you must pay a lawyer almost all of your money, or accept the public defender. You go to trial and are found guilty, meaning finding work in your engineering field will be much more difficult. The prospect of appealing is daunting, as it will seemingly take years, meanwhile your life goes further and further down the toilet.
After the incident you speak with the paramedic who sedated you and they inform you that they have a working relationship with the police and essentially have to trust their determination that someone should be taken to the hospital. They sedate you for everyone’s safety as a matter of practice.
How many rights were violated and crimes committed?
[ul]
[li] Liberty / freedom of movement: Public intoxication is not a crime in CO and you were not charged with jaywalking or anything other than objecting to the restriction of your liberty by being forced into a van without explanation[/li][li] Liberty: Being detained in handcuffs and told you are not free to leave while not being under arrest and without being told that the police plan to send you to detox[/li][li] Excessive force: The gang unit treated you like a gang banger when you are a working professional[/li][li] Excessive force: Instead of warning you and asking if you’d like a ride home or a taxi, or putting you in the back of the cruiser and taking you to detox, or telling you that you’re going to detox and putting you in the detox van, they push you into the detox van and arrest you when you object.[/li][li] Excessive force: A takedown by four officers who typically do takedowns on gangbangers, and who injure you.[/li][li] Unlawful detainment: How did you go from crossing the street to waking up chained to a hospital bed to spending a day in jail?[/li][li] Due process: Because you were not told why you were being detained, you could not argue about the actions being taken against you. They don’t tell you that you are going to detox because it sometimes irritates people.[/li][li] Conspiracy: The police and paramedics do joint trainings and have a working relationship and know that this is a regular outcome of police procedure, and that the procedure is there so that the police don’t have to personally shuttle people around, call them taxis, etc.[/li][li] Speech: Public intoxication is not illegal, and slurred speech is still free speech[/li][li] Humiliation (Geneva): While in jail you have to poop in a room with another man and with other inmates walking by and looking at you.[/li][li] Cruel and unusual punishment: Is it not? Even if not unusual, how is it not cruel?[/li][li] Innocent until proven guilty: You are being severely punished despite not having been found guilty.[/li][li] Liberty (right to travel): Your bond stipulates you may not leave your state.[/li][/ul]
What other rights violations do you see?
Do you think that the state has the right to violate all of these rights in order to balance having to provide them for others?
memeingtrillions, I might suggest that you spend some time learning basic Constitutional Criminal Procedure law. A number of the suggested rights violations are not rights violations under current Constitutional Law, as a quick review would show (for example, your comments about “cruel and unusual punishment”).
IANAL. I will post what I think, and a real lawyer will correct me where necessary.
I think this is what is called a Terry stop. You are not under arrest, but you are not free to go. You do not have to answer any questions beyond identifying information. The police are free to ask you questions and use your answers against you.
20 minutes is probably nearing the outside limit of detention for a Terry stop, which is supposed to be “brief”. “Brief” is not clearly defined. Nonetheless, at this point you are under arrest. The police do not have to say “you are under arrest”, because putting you into the van communicates it clearly enough.
This is resisting arrest/escaping from custody/obstruction of justice. None of your rights have been violated so far. You do not have the right to leave - you are under arrest.
You might have cause of action against the hospital for sedating you without your consent, depending on the circumstances and what you can show.
If you posted bond, you must have appeared before a judge. Posting bond has nothing to do with whether or not you have ID.
I don’t see any violations of your rights in any of the above.
Again, it depends on what you can prove. Sedating everyone might be a malpractice suit.
My additions in bold.
I don’t see where placing someone in a van conveys a person is under arrest any more than it conveys a miranda rights briefing.
I’m not sure what a “detox van” is but if it’s transportation for someone who is incapacitate then at that point they would have to be formally charged with a crime. You can’t just haul people away without cause.
I don’t think that being taken to detox constitutes being placed under arrest. When you are in detox you can ask them if you are under arrest and they will say no. They will also say you are not free to leave until your BAC reaches a certain threshold.
If you’re not free to leave then that fits the definition of arrest: An arrest is using legal authority to deprive a person of his or her freedom of movement.
That’s not accurate. Arrest has a specific definition. Not being free to leave is not sufficient to meet the definition of arrest. For example, a person can be detained without being placed under arrest, and in the case of detainment, they are not free to leave. Your previous post where you indicated if someone was taken via a detox van then they have to be formally charged - that’s not true either. A person can be detained, arrested, removed in a detox van, with no formal charges being filed. Not all arrests lead to charges. Not all detainments lead to arrests.
As I understand it, police don’t have to tell the person what he’s being arrested for at the time of arrest. I think that idea came from movies and TV. It’s the DA who determines what the charges will be (if any), and it can take some time. In felony cases, the accused is formally charged with the crime at the arraignment.
This can fall under a States mental health code laws. If you are so intoxicated you are a danger to yourself you may be held up to (in most places ) 72 hours without being under arrest. Also, after a mandated amount of time, there has to be a hearing to determine if you still can be held.
This is just a generalization and YMMV like crazy depending on what state you are in.
ETA: I’ve had people who were too intoxicated for the detox center. Got turned away and had to take them to the hospital as their BAC was in the lethal zone.
Not necessarily. Most charges have a specific bond amount. A person can post that amount and be on their way without ever seeing a judge.
Most of our arrests are processed at our departments booking room. Folks usually have about 2 hours to post bond before they go into the van down to the county jail facility. Once you are at CJF you’ll sit on your ass for at least 6 -8 hours even if someone came and posted for you. It takes that long for their paper work to process.
Surely someone in handcuffs is under arrest though?
(Not to mention - fighting the hypothetical - attempting to leave with handcuffs on you seems like a very dumb idea. How are you planning to get them off?)
Again, IANAL, but ISTM being cuffed and put into the back of a van to be transported to detox, or to the station, crosses the line from being detained into being under arrest, especially if they tackle you when you try to get away.
It doesn’t convey a Miranda briefing, that is true. But, again in my non-lawyerly opinion, being handcuffed and put into the back of a van ripens the situation from a detention into an arrest. And the cops don’t have to Mirandize you unless they want to ask questions.
According to the OP. he was stopped for jaywalking. Much depends on the circumstances, but presumably the cops were going to haul him off to detox for being a danger to himself or others, and then he resisted arrest, so that was what he was charged with. The OP is correct, I believe, that public intoxication is not against the law in Colorado, but you can still be arrested for other crimes committed while drunk in public (cite) which would include resisting arrest.
The only grounds for action that I can see is the involuntary sedation, and that would be against the tech who sedated him and/or the hospital to which he was admitted. Of course, I have been told that, when in doubt, sue everybody, so no doubt the police department would be included eventually.
Automatically sedating someone who is already drunk is dangerous business, so, not to fight the hypothetical, but I would question if “every drunk who comes in gets a shot of Valium by default” is policy anywhere.
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLORADO
Civil Action No. 16-2915
MICHAEL CORNELL and
LAUREN RODRIGUEZ,
Plaintiffs,
v.
DENVER C.A.R.E.S., a behavioral health facility operated by Denver Health Medical
Center/Denver Health and Hospital Authority,
DENVER POLICE DEPARTMENT,
ROBERT C. WHITE, Denver Police Chief,
JOHN DOES #1 AND #2, officers of the Denver Police Department,
BILL BURMAN, M.D., Chief Executive Officer, Denver Health Medical Center,
NICOLE MCLEAN,
FIRST NAME UNK. PORTILLO,
RENE MISELA,
AVA WALSTON,
Defendants.
I’m skeptical about an intoxicated person being sedated.
Most medical professionals I’ve dealt with won’t sedate someone intoxicated on an unknown substance. And they usually don’t in the case of high BAC. Even in cases of excited delirium they are very cautious about sedatives.