Doing a big add-on to our house, putting in a new floor in our crawl space (huge crawl space). The contractor just installed the floor joists and I’ve got some questions.
1 – the lumber was left out in the rain. We’re in SoCal, so rain this time is year is fairly rare. Contractor explained to me the lumber would be fine as long as it didn’t warp. Warped boards were swapped out for new ones, boards that stayed straight were allowed to dry and then were used. Just making sure this information is correct, that we don’t need to worry about the boards having been wet in the past?
2 – I’ve got some photos of the joists and how they are attached to the wall:
In a few instances, the lumber has splintered because of how the nail was put in. Now most of the wood seems fine, this is just a handful of instances. Am I being paranoid and over-concerned? Is this completely normal and safe? Or do I need to worry? I know next to nothing about construction.
I would be a little concerned that the boards might warp after they were installed, leaving the floor slightly uneven, but if they were dry when installed, this wouldn’t be much of a concern. The nails look like they were just used to tack the stringer in place before it was lag-screwed in. I wouldn’t worry about any minor splitting at those nails.
if the lumber dried straight and was used dry then it is OK.
the small nails are there to hold the lumber in position while the structural fasteners (lag bolts) are put in place, where the damage occurs is inconsequential.
I agree with this. The toenails don’t support any weight; if the boards were cracking where the lag bolts were installed, I’d be calling the carpenter back in. I’m sure that’s treated lumber, which will resist moisture to some extent, so wouldn’t sweat it too much.
It’s a lot like sausage or hot dogs. If people really saw what went in, they wouldn’t eat the stuff (sometimes). The minor splintering is no problem. I would like to see some cripples installed every few feet between those joists. That would be required code in my venue. You could complete that yourself easily. And of course you have a permit and an inspection, Se.
Agree that you should have cripples in there (and I see from your post that the crips are in or are going in) . And I noticed that they are two bag or ‘sistered’. Assume 3/4" plywood deck? Once the floor is glued and screwed, nothing is going to warp. You’ll be able to play basketball in there.
What do you have there? double 2x10’s on 16" centers 12’ feet long?
I looked at your photos, and am somewhat confused.
What is holding up your joists? From the picture they look like they are butt ended to the cross beams. So what is taking the weight of the joists, and the subsequent floor loading?
Eh. You’re right. I would want joist hangers if they could not be end nailed as in common new construction. I just assumed that’s what they had done. Seems odd to me that they toe nailed them. Hangers could be added.
Perhaps that’s common? I’d check code/building dept before that deck goes on, or perhaps I’m over reacting.
This isn’t for a deck, it’s for a floor of the house. Inside existing walls, underneath our bottom floor. Hill construction, so it’s a bit strange. I’ll find out from contractors what is holding up joists b/c I’m not sure at the moment. I’ll post once i know.
Is the job permitted and when is the next inspection? I would guess that the inspector is going to look at this before the floor joists are covered up.
If your job is permitted, then you must have had a structural engineer submit plans along with your architectural drawings. Contact him/her if you have any questions. They should be open to some consultation w/o charge. You might even get them to do a site visit if you ask nicely.
If you’re savvy enough, look at the structural plans yourself and see what they call for. Your contractor, at least, should be willing to help you read them if you can’t.
This is not the place you should be coming to for professional advice, but since you ask, I will give you a few hints regarding how I would build this structure if it were my house.
I emphasis that I am not giving you professional advice, I am only saying how I would have built it:
In your picture, it shows that the supporting cross beam is fixed to the wall studs, using bolts.
There are standard engineering rules which specify the maximum size of hole that may be drilled into a structural element, and specifically where those holes may be drilled.
I note that in your picture, both of these rules seem to have been violated.
Supporting that note, and clarifying why these rules exist, I see that in your picture #1, one of the studs is already starting to split. Bad.
Attaching the support beam to the wall studs may produce a rotational torque on these wall elements. Under load, this may eventually buckle the wall, and may affect the upper levels and roof. Bad.
I would have laid the supporting beams across a series of pillars built of brick and mortar, and footed on large concrete pads; as opposed to bolted to structural elements in the wall.
This is particularity important if your building is on a slope and susceptible to land slip.
I would have laid the floor joists across the top of, and secured to, the top of the supporting beams; with one beam at each end, and perhaps others in between, depending on the floor span and the specific material of the joist.
Each end of the joist should be cantilevered about three or four inches beyond each end beam.
I am not a construction engineer or a PE/SE, however I do have a degree in structural engineering, so this is not professional advice, just my educated opinion.
I agree with Grateful UnDead - those photos show connection details that look pretty dodgy to me. I would feel pretty uneasy with joists just being toenailed into that horizontal plate. The end grain of the joists isn’t the strongest part, you’re depending entirely on the strength of the nails in the part of the wood which is easiest to split.
I am surprised that they don’t have any support directly underneath the joists and/or aren’t using something like metal joist hangers (Simpson Strong Tie being the most common brand). Here’s an example:
If that was my house I would certainly have someone qualified in the field check it out.
