Huh?
Are you saying they are liars? Nightline even ran a program on our program.
First of all, I don’t believe psychic ability exists. I believe it is a deception. Secondly, I believe this line about “psychic ability” only working through love and caring is more deception. It is very similar to people who only believe in good aliens.
Sorry. Poorly worded…
Nightline even ran a show about our military “psychic” program.
I understand your position. It is a reasonable one.
However, the Lazar case does not compare to our military’s remote viewing program. Bob was one man. Our remote viewing program had several participants over the years. I don’t know the exact number off the top of my head, but I would guess close to 15. I could be a little high, but more likely a little low. I can think of three right now. And I’m not sure all of them have made a point of seeking any publicity about this.
Bob Lazar was also never covered by Nightline, to the best of my knowledge. I do see your point, but I think ,upon further reflection, you will see the two cases are actually more like apples and oranges.
On top of that, our government unfortunately lies to us sometimes. I don’t like it, but it’s part of the game they play. Keep in mind that the CIA was involved with this and they are very good at disinformation. They have to be. The world is not a safe place.
Btw, one of the participants in our remote viewing program went crazy from the experience. This is dangerous stuff, very similar to opening your mind to the spirit world through a ouija board.
GOM, I’d like a little verification on that last little claim about someone going crazy, if you don’t mind.
About the government lying to us sometimes: when it comes to the matter of psychic ability, if all the resources outside of the government are incapable of producing one valid psychic, then it is almost a certainty that the government hasn’t produced one either, unless it has either defied the laws of probability and lucked onto the “real” psychics using a very secret and very limited search, or they have some means of testing for psychic ability that has not occured to anyone outside of these hush-hush government circles in the last couple of hundred years.
Another thing about these super-secret government programs.
Why can’t people involved in these programs come forward and publish their results? It can’t be because they fear for their lives, because there are so-called psychics all over the place claiming to have participated in these projects, supposedly successfully, and the government hasn’t killed them, made them disappear, or managed to shut them up in any way. Hell, they publish books and articles about their supposed accomplishments, and our evil and manipulative government doesn’t do a damn thing about it.
I can’t prove it to your safisfaction but I’ve heard it reported by two participants in the program. Thses comments were made during seperate interviews. They both blamed his breakdown on him, meaning that he was weak before he went into the program, while claiming that remote viewing itself is harmless. (I disagree with them.) You can dismiss the breakdown story, but I put it in my gray box as a possibility. I doubt anyone can produce documents to back it up.
I don’t know about producing one valid psychic. Some people have been extremely impressed with Dannion Brinkley (sp?). He’s another case of turning “psychic” after a NDE. He certainly changed his life drastically. Let’s see. He’s been dead three times now. The first time was for about 17 minutes, as I recall.
You are free to disbelieve that anything “psychic” at all happened during our government’s program. That’s certainly the more comfortable position to take. However, multiple people who were on the scene say important things did happen. Even classified things.
To balance it out though, Ed Dames (who was in our military program), has not impressed me with his recent (and publicly announced) remote viewing capabilities.
A good question. I think it might involve the 10/10 form they sign. Ten year in prison and a $10,000.00 fine. I have heard this form reported by several people. I have not seen one. Frankly, the 10K fine sounds pretty low to me. But maybe it was created in the 50’s when 10K could buy a house in some parts of the country.
For all I know the whole thing could be a wonderful case of disinformation. However, Joe said roughly 98% of the stuff he worked on was still classified and he refused to talk about it. So your point is incorrect. In Joe’s case, he has shut up. He talks generically mostly, not in specifics. He would be in trouble otherwise. Talking about classified projects **will[/]b indeed get you in trouble even today. In fact, after 911 my guess is that it will get you in more trouble quicker…
Why do you say our government is evil?
Everone has an opinion and it is never worth much, since you know nothing about psychics, your opinion is not even close to being truth.
No, my father was not slim, He died of a heart attack suddenly, and we had planted no rose bushes. I would guess the “slim father” would match less than 25% of the families.
I didn’t hear any yeses on my suggestion.
We will take the psychics reading or readings from the Larry King show and have an independent agency verify them as “cold readings” by duplicating them with a range of people and writing a report, the loser pay for the report. This is as fair as one can get, is it not?
Psychics have been calling Randi out for years to do an independent test of his methods with no luck, seems to me if Randi was an honest man he would be quick to show it.
One could get Randi to disclose how he sets up the test, the counting system used and other data that is relevant to the procedure and it could be independently tested. But no, he is always defensive and vague and says no.
One could find out how the Russians license their psychics and present the test they give to psychics under controlled conditions.
We could ask Duke University to run the test of so-called “cold readings” as an independent agency and announce the results.
We could ask the Universite of Virginia to do so also, I have an acquantance there.
There are also the English we could ask about their test of psychics, they license them also.
You see there are numberous ways to prove those nasty old psychics are cheats and put this issue to rest once and for all. I am willing to put up some money and ask others to get involved also, how about you. Are you willing to put your money where your mouth is.
Love
Leroy
Lekatt, I am not prepared to participate in this debate with you any further until there is some indication that you read my posts fully. I get the feeling that the questions that I am asking, and the confronting nature of my suggestions is just too much for you to be able to deal with, so you are pretending my posts are not there.
My very first exposure to Randi was a television special in which he tested several people. He explained the method of each tests and the probability of achieving results by random chance. Outside of giving a lecture on probability and handing out textbooks, Randi could not have been more specific and explicit.
Re-Altea
My paternal grandfather was slim when he died. He was an excellent gardener and planted rosebushes aplenty.
Her other readings fit deceased relatives of mine equally well.
Now, now. It doesn’t have to be your father; She specifically said, in every call, that she wasn’t sure if it was that exact person, but maybe another relative. So look a little further, maybe. Are there any male relatives of yours that died that were slim, had chest or breathing problems, and died suddenly? Because it sounds like, with the exception of slim (Was he average or overweight?), you got very close to her reading there. The rosebushes don’t quite count, seeing as they were a detail provided by the caller, therefor specifying a situation that doesn’t apply to most people. Looks like you scored 75% on this anyway, with only comparing your father (Hits on “chest problems,” “suddenly/shockingly,” and I’m willing to bet “breathing problems,” since one of the initial signs of a heart attack is severe problems with breathing). I’m sure if you go back far enough, you’ll find someone who died in the same way and was slim.
While we’re at it, let’s do the other calls, to, hmm? Any female relative that died of cancer? With something involving a new house either recently or around the time of her death (Not necesarily you, or your family, but maybe friends or aquaintences?)
Any deceased male relative that wore a uniform w/cap at any point in his life, and had a leg injury at any point in his life?
Have you ever known a woman that died at a young age (Probably teen, maybe a little older, but not likely), in an accident, possibly a bike accident? If you do, congratulations, you got a “hit” where the reader got a “miss.”
He and the testee agree to the EXACT conditions of the test beforehand. It isn’t hidden at all.
This is a little unclear, to me. Are you saying that psychics are realy-but it’s totally a deception (brought on by Satan), that psychics aren’t real, but they are very convincing, or what?
I’m a little fuzzy…
I realize the Lazar comparison is a little bad (although he was on one of the top shows I think…), I suppose that I’m just saying that I don’t have enough evidence for me to make a clear cut decision on what our government is doing.
Also, as far as psychics go, I haven’t seen enough evidence that what they do is anything more than cold reading. So if you put my experience of psychics together with my experience with people claiming coverups (the government, if the psychics are indeed real, they aren’t admitting it), then you can see why I chose not to believe psychics are genuine.
If this is so, then did the guy who got the medal get fined? Why do people come out at all? How do we know any of the information if they have to sign legal papers?
No. He talks about the 2% that has been declassified.
Dunno. I’m not psychic! 
I think #1 is part of the answer, but I suspect there is more to this story than meets the eye (as is often the case when the CIA is involved).
I don’t either, but I lean towards the idea that there were some real results. Results that were beyond lucky guesses.
No problem. As long as you state it the way you do. You say you choose not to believe. That takes you out of the debunker group, imo.
My only male relatives are my brother, still alive.
On my father’s side, parents unknown, dad was from Germany. He said they were killed in war.
On my mother’s side, her father, died 1 year after I was born.
Sorry, no hits.
The second rosebush was not provided by the caller, the psychic was very positive when she said two, and that was affirmed.
No breathing problems, just died, wrong again.
No one in my family has ever had cancer or died from cancer. wrong again.
No new houses, or remodeling, lived for 40 years in the house I am in now. My parents, wife’s parents, also lived in their houses until they died, all are dead. wrong again.
No deceased relatives wore uniforms at any time in their lives and none had leg injuries. wrong again
I know of no young woman who died in a bicycle accident or any other kind of accident. When I was young it was rare for women to ride bikes, wrong again.
I have answered your questions accurately and completely.
Cold readings are BS.
Now as for Randi, that is not true, they may agree on the number of questions and what the question will be, Randi dictates how the test will be scored and he has revealed that to no one.
Love
Leroy
Randi sets up each test on its independent merit and that’s agreed upon with the psychic before the test begins.
(and this thread would be a lot shorter if you only quoted the necessary information instead of the whole post, i’m just saying…)
Randi will not reveal his statistical methods to anyone, when Larry asked about them he said he didn’t know anything about statistics, then later mentioned that the statistics determined it. He has never reveal how he counts the hits and misses and how he records statistical data, it is true that he has other people doing that for him, but for him to said he knows nothing about them is not true.
If he were so honest why did he not accept the challenge put to him and modified to help him accept it. What is he afraid of. If he is so good why doesn’t he collect the psychics million dollars.
Now, if you think I am wrong, then you get the testing statistics Randi uses and the method of scoring and we will let a third party test them for us. That is fair.
Anytime a psychic wants to use third party testing, which is common in matters like this, they are turned down.
Don’t you think it’s about time to find out the real truth.
Other countries like Russia, England, Australia and now America have psychic tests and there are many psychics passing them.
What about truth for a change?
Love
Leroy