Please do not call lekatt names in this forum.
That is why we have the BBQ Pit.
I meant to include on this one.
You want to be enlightened fine, read the “Seth” books by Jane Roberts, there is also a “Seth” site, you can find the address on my links page.
There are about 7 or 8 books, each about 1000 pages long. This is a very good start for those who wish to understand the spiritual world.
“The Eternal Validity of the Soul” might be a good place to start.
This, after all, is the best you can do isn’t it? Sounds pretty flakey to me.
No matter what is said here or by whom, the facts are:
There is a spiritual world
The psychic on Larry King was in touch with the deceased relatives of the callers. She made the calls and the calls were accurate except the one where she said she couldn’t see the relative. The psychic was honest, straightforward, ansered all of Larry’s questions and was obviously in control of the debate as such.
Larry understood it and so did the audience.
That is all that needs to be said, detractors don’t have a leg to stand on.
Yes, and don’t forget to do what Randi suggested, take the readings, word for word, and use them as readings for anyone. Randi said they would work that way. Try and see what you get.
Love
Leroy
Yeah, he demands a controlled test. How unfair.
How mny time do we need to tell you that you cannot prove a negative like that.
Way to dismiss without looking.
None at all, eh? That’s a rather blanket statement.
Well said, gobear. Neither can Penn & Teller. Or James Randi. And they will be the first to admit it.
From A James Randi speech at Caltech in 1992, which I happened to attend, by the way:
(Boldface mine)
And while he didn’t specifically mention psychics in the above quote, I think it applies very well.
Then you will have no excuse for not reading it here:
http://doorbell.net/important_stuff_you_must_read/praagh.pdf
if there are online versions of these they might be worth perusing: however, if they start of with a takeoff of L Ron Hubbards classic caveat, that “you cannot understand this until you have read it all, and look at it holistically,” then I will know it is a bunch of bull.
I apologize for my absence from this thread. I wanted to ensure that my findings were accurate and was running full scale diagnostics. These involve not only dismantling, testing, and recalibrating my field scanner but my computer as well. While my equipment was free of faults, the diagnostic procedure set off a prank program a friend had placed on my machine. I will say only that it involved 10 Bonzai Buddies running in tandem.
#1-Lekatt I demand an apology. I *have* claimed that you are under the influence of the Progenitor drug Psuedotheizine, a condition which I call ScrewTape Poisoning. I have also provided proof. SturmHawke, and Captain Amazing have both seen and verified my evidence. Further, I have shown all my data on you to Professor Sternkampfer, the EtherPsychologist I studied under. He also agreed with my findings.
Lekatt calls me a fraud. I demand an apology.
#2-Penn and Teller
Penn and Teller are very different men. Penn’s house features a wall marked for police line ups. His hot tub has a custom jet designed to cause orgasm in female guests. Teller’s house has a Victorian library with a secret passage. But, their styles compliment eachother very well. However, that isn’t the only reason they became partners. Both are Actualized. Their stage work is no more than it appears. Penn is a walking talking distraction with some skill at sleight of hand. Teller is a master of prestidigitation. But, their crusade against psychic fraud is driven by an intimate knowledge that magic is real. Their rage is not only that Edward and his ilk lie and steal. It is that by their lies these frauds keep people from finding true magic.
#3-Thank You Princhester
You’ve defended my position well in my absence. One of the reasons I love the SDMB is that the level of discussion here will sometimes Actuallize a previously dormant MetaConscious Mind. I’ve placed a kind of tag on your NCCF to alert me to further activity.
#4-Science And The "Supernatural"
I can and have scientifically and objectively measured souls and non physical entities. The "astral planes" have been as extensively mapped and measured as the surface of the Earth. NonActualized science and NonActualized scientists may be unable to measure these things. But Actualized Science and Actualized Scientists have been doing it for a long time.
#5-Skepticism And Me
I believe in God. I believe in an afterlife. But, I have no proof of either. I feel the presence of God. I sense His guidance in my life. But I have never claimed to have evidence of this. I can believe something based on my subjective experience. But, I don’t ask anyone else to believe it without evidence. Being a skeptic doesn’t mean living in a grey world devoid of joy or wonder. Read Darwin’s Finch in a thread on evolution. Read between and behind his words. There, you will find passion and joy and wonder. Read Bad Astronomer debunking the moon hoax. Look between his words and find the message ‘Human beings did land on the Moon! What could be more magical than that? Through reason and science, we did what many thought impossible.’
I understand the Bernouli principle and how the shape of a plane’s wings creates lift. But what goes through my mind each time I look out the window and see the ground recede, isn’t science-it’s poetry.
I’m wearing synthetic fabric. I’m watching television. I’m pushing plastic squares and seeing letters appear on glass. I’m connected to a network that spans the globe. All these things happened because of skepticism and the scientific method. Faith and alchemy gave way to skepticism and chemistry. Science has given the world marvels that magic never could.
Funny? I’m dead serious. A while ago you said
Now here’s something that can be tested. Apply for the million-dollar prize. Work out a method of testing that you feel is 100% fair, cannot be faked or misunderstood as to the outcome or biased in any way on either side. If agreed upon by both parties, give it a go. What can you possibly lose? And look how much you stand to gain!
So it doesn’t work every time? No prob, apply again. Surely you can make it work just once?
You have just made a simple, testable claim. Let’s test it; if you can truly do what you have just claimed so cavalierly, you can walk away a lot richer, not to mention shutting up a lot of skeptics, right? Otherwise, some people might just think there’s nothing here but a lot of boasting and hot air. Say it ain’t so, Leroy!
And I’ll buy you a fancy dinner with my 10% agent’s fee. That’s all I ask. 
I’m hesitant to say what I think about that, mainly because I don’t know that much about it. It is interesting, and I can see why the government wouldn’t make it common knowledge. On the other hand, I haven’t seen enough evidence to conclude that psychics are genuine.
This reminds me of Area 51 and Bob Lazar. Bob Lazar claims that their were aliens there, that he worked there, and a lot more. He has no evidence, and the government denies his story.
In both cases, we have a person’s testimony to rely on; granted I think Bob Lazar’s testimony is highly questionable, I think you can see why I don’t think our militaries involvement is enough for me to cast my skepticism aside.
Hey, you challenged us to find out if we could give those readings to other people, and see if they got the same results. Not only did I score slightly higher on her “readings” than the people who called in, I scored it for every call she took on that show!. Both people here on the boards who compared the calls to themselves scored at least as well as the individual callers did, for ALL calls. If these “personal” readings work for multiple people, it certainly seems to discredit the readings as good evidence
And I will point out that YOU are the one who said this:
And we complied, and it worked. Now you’re saying we’re grasping at straws because we did exactly what you challenged us to do, but the results didn’t turn out as well as you thought they would? Come on, show a little more honesty than that…
(Hell, I’d be curious to see how accurately the readings work for you, even)
As for the Larry King show, the psychic certainly didn’t seem to be “dominating” the discussion. And just about flat-out refuses to take Randi’s challenge.
So what about Miss Cleo? Why are you positive that there couldn’t be a bad psychic? Not to mention, the help the psychic could give the military need not be harmful.
You said they didn’t exist. I was pointing out that they did; their was an actual example of a person who not only did a “cold” reading, he went on later and said he was conning people.
Well, you called Doc Cathode a fake when he didn’t agree with you. So presumably it’s not worth answering your posts either. When are you going to back your “slanders” of Doc by proving what you have said about him?
No, I’m not going to drop this, just in case you were wondering.
Oh, we’re back on the “you won’t understand” schtick again are we?
Try us.
You are desperate to paint us as closed minded to cover for the fact that you simply have nothing to tell us that stands up to the slightest scrutiny. (Zammit is so desperate that he can’t even say the word skeptic without putting “closed minded” in front of it).
We are all listening. We have been listening for 9 pages now. We are all ears. Come up with some evidence that cannot be explained by cold reading and we’ll all be engrossed. We are fascinated by this stuff. Why do you think we’ve been sticking with this debate? I grew up on a steady diet of fantasy and science fiction novels. Actual psychic ability would be the coolest new area of knowledge the human race had found for centuries if not ever.
We don’t want physical facts, we just want you to show us the way, show us psychics coming up with some correct info that could only be obtained from dead people more often than is explicable by guesswork. Wewant you to win the million.
You know, you and Zammit love to call us closed minded, but have a read through this post of yours, Lekatt. First you tell us “what the facts are” and you say that it doesn’t matter what we say those are the facts. And then you say that “the facts” that you have written are all that needs to be said.
Could you be more closed minded? Who appointed you to say what does and does not need to be said?
I am flabbergasted. What do you think Pheonix Dragon and I did? Are you reading this thread? We found that Altea’s musings fit us as well or better than the callers. You are yet to deal with that.
Princhester, it may be a lost cause. Over the years I have learned that people cling desperately to conmen, liars, and useless superstitions. When I try to bring them into the realm of real psychic abilities, they resist with all they can. They shout that my scanners and my degrees are just lies and tricks. Ramtha, The Tenth Insight, and John Edward are the truth.
They are determined that my 747 is just a fraud and that gluing feathers to their bodies and flapping their arms is the only way to ever fly.
It's a big plane folks. There is room for all of you. Open your minds. Let go of the lies and false beliefs that chain you to the earth. Open your eyes and truly see. You aren't flying. Your in a tiny cage painted blue and white. You aren't flying. You're chained to a perch. But, I can give you the sky. I want to give you the sky. Will you not take it?I had a cold reading from someone earlier in this thread without one single hit. I would not trust any tests the skeptic posters ran on the readings from the show, but I do think we have a chance here to really prove something one way or not.
Pick the exact wording from the show on a reading and print it here so we can look it over and agree on it, then we can get a survey company to run the tests of the “cold readings” on random people in a mall.
They can compile the results and publish a report. Is that fair enough. Then the loser pays for the survery company. very fair.
How about that.
Love
Leroy
This is a little unclear… Are you subtly implying that we’re lying?
Ironic, that you automatically assume other people’s unlikely claims to be true simply because they say so, and then seem to imply that ours are not true…
I’m still curious to see how well the test applies to you. Or, hell, how well I could cold-read you (No offence to Diogenes, but most of the calls he gave were sort of long shots).
Oh, great, Lekatt. So now you are basically calling not just DocCathode but me and Pheonix Dragon fakes and liars. So now, just to recap, you (by your own logic) have to provide proof that DocCathode is a fake and that PD and myself applied Altea’s readings to ourselves in an untrustworthy fashion.
We’re waiting…
As a matter of interest, why do you insist on quoting entire, lengthy posts of myself and others when your post (at the foot of the quote) does not answer the questions nor even comment upon the points made in what you are quoting?
Speaking of quotes, why don’t you pick out the facts from Altea’s reading to form the basis of the questions? They would need to be in the form of a fact and who she said it would apply too. You would also have to find subjects that fit the callers, or it wouldn’t make sense. For example, for a survey on the first caller, you would have to find subjects whose father had died, and then ask things like:
“Was your father or anyone else connected or related to you (Altea said she didn’t know who she was reading) slim when they died?”
You post a list of questions for discussion, and we can talk about organising a survey.
Frankly, I’m not going to do the work involved, I’ve already put an enormous amount of effort into this thread, including several long analyses of various things, and I’m not going to do it all and then just have you say “I’m not going to trust anything done by a skeptic.”
And don’t think I’m going to forget about your outstanding proof for your descriptions of DocCathode as a fake and Pheonix and myself as liars, either.
Don’r ever call anybody else close-minded again.