Yep! Thanks for the links. I’ll have to check them out later.
<channelling Johnny Olson>
And this afterlife can be yours … if … the Price is Right!
</channelling>
GOM… why is knowing what happens to us after we die all that important?
Personally, I happen to be of the opinion that finding things out that affect us while we live is more important than that.
Considering that belief in the afterlife is just that - belief, without evidence, I prefer to concentrate on life. What happens after I’m dead will happen. I prefer to spend my time dealing with where I am now rather than where I might be later.
I’m sure I would probably enjoy the humo(u)r, if I knew who Johnny Olson was…
But the price has already been paid for each one of us. It is our choice to accept, or reject, God’s free gift.
Because the soul never dies. You, or I, could die tonight. We have no guarantee for tomorrow. I could get killed out on the Southern California freeway today. Our bodies do not last forever. Our souls do.
Then you know, don’t you?
You have faith. Faith does not require proof.
So why is obtaining proof so important?
The decisions you make during your life decide where you go after your body dies.
In the Bible Jesus asks this question:
Matthew 16:26 What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?
A billionaire died the other day. All of his money is useless to him where he is now. Jesus said that your soul is more valuable than if you were somehow able to own the whole world. Don’t waste it.
God bless.
Everyone have a great weekend.
The following story is the unaltered truth.
The Simpsons did an episode in which Bart sells his soul for $5. It made me curious. What was the least I could get some one to sell their soul for? So, I printed up a nice form. It explained that the undersigned willingly gave me their souls for all eternity. In exchange, they received nothing. Those terms were made very clear.
I received over 100 genuine signatures.
Yes. I have faith in God.
Hebrews 11
By Faith
1 Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.
2 This is what the ancients were commended for.
3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.
I’m really out of time right now, but I do not understand your question. Proof of what? Of the afterlife? I do not expect science to ever be able to break that barrier, although some are trying.
The Bible teaches us that we are not just a physical body:
1 Thessalonians 5:23
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
The Bible also teaches us that we are all sinners, and it is our sin that seperates us from God. God has provided a way to pay for our sins. Many Christians will be celebrating that event over the next few days. I know it is popular in our culture these days to declare that there is no sin. However, when you take time to meditate seriously all alone on your life I think you will come face to face with the realization that there has indeed been some sin in your life. There has been in mine. And after you discard the minor differences between all humans, we are essentially all the same.
I am way out of time now, but if you would like to ask some additional questions here is a great place to do so:
http://thebruces.stormbirds.org/forums/index.php
Talk to ya later.
There are no souls.
Buddha teaches us anatman.
Okay, If I have an immortal soul (which I by no means accept outright) and If there is an afterlife, and If there is a God, then I believe I will be fine, as long as I do my best to be a good person, whether I believe in that God or not.
If belief in that God is the deciding factor, then I believe that God is petty and not worth the time of prayer.
Objection, your honor! Assumes facts not in evidence, namely the existance of an immortal soul.
Choose carefully who you will follow…
Buddha died. He stayed dead.
Jesus died. He did not stay dead. Something to think about.
Matthew 28
The Resurrection
1 After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.
2 There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it.
3 His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow.
4 The guards were so afraid of him that they shook and became like dead men.
5 The angel said to the women, "Do not be afraid, for I know that you are looking for Jesus, who was crucified.
6 He is not here;** he has risen, just as he said**. Come and see the place where he lay.
7 Then go quickly and tell his disciples: ‘He has risen from the dead and is going ahead of you into Galilee. There you will see him.’ Now I have told you."
8 So the women hurried away from the tomb, afraid yet filled with joy, and ran to tell his disciples.
9 Suddenly Jesus met them. “Greetings,” he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him.
10 Then Jesus said to them, “Do not be afraid. Go and tell my brothers to go to Galilee; there they will see me.”
The Guards’ Report
11 While the women were on their way, some of the guards went into the city and reported to the chief priests everything that had happened.
12 When the chief priests had met with the elders and devised a plan, they gave the soldiers a large sum of money,
13 telling them, "You are to say, ‘His disciples came during the night and stole him away while we were asleep.’
14 If this report gets to the governor, we will satisfy him and keep you out of trouble."
15 So the soldiers took the money and did as they were instructed. And this story has been widely circulated among the Jews to this very day.
As you can see, modern media did not invent “spin”. Here’s an example from almost 2,000 years ago.
Exactly what I was thinking.
Gautma Buddha is a rarity among religious figures. There is secular evidence he actually existed. Being born a prince, his birth and life were recorded as historical fact, before he turned to religion.
Jesus(I admit that this is true of the prophets of Judaism as well) appears nowhere but in religious texts. Unless you're of the faith, there is no evidence he was ever born. Let alone died. To say nothing of rising three days later.
Further, by saying Buddha “stayed dead” you pay him a compliment, and no Buddhist would disagree. The goal of Buddhists is to attain enlightenment and freedom from this world. When this is done, their souls are no longer reborn into the material world but remain in paradise.
I am a Jew. I was born to a Jewish family. Judaism works for me. But, I do not maintain that it is somehow a superior religion. More, it is even possible I'm wrong. Perhaps Jesus was actually the One Begotten Son, and I'm following an outdated covenant. Perhaps, he was just another prophet and my mistake lies in not acknowledging Muhhamed as the last prophet of the god of Abraham. Perhaps Freyr is the member of the one true faith, and I should concern myself with gaining entrance to the hall of Freyja when I die. Perhaps Gobear is right and ALL spiritual experiences are just tricks of neurochemistry and no religion is more than a fairytale.
I only know what I feel. I have no evidence of God. I have no proof of any kind. But, I feel God in my life. The God I know through my personal experience does not care what faith you follow. His message can be summed up by the words of Ted Theodore Logan and Bill S Preston, Esquire
"Be excellent to eachother!"
Zev, a Jew carries this out.
Polycarp, a Christian, carries this out.
Gobear, an atheist, carries this out.
Does it matter who they pray to? Or even if they pray at all?
So, while we are on the subject of psychics…
Well…
This thread also has some mighty Big footprints in it.
The original post did mention Contact with the Great Beyond. Since I trust in Jesus, I also trust what he said about the great beyond:
Treasures in Heaven
19 "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
22 "The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are good, your whole body will be full of light. 23 But if your eyes are bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!
24 "No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.
An interesting comparison between God and money, don’t you think?
What would jesus say?
Does jesus think that jonathan edwards and von Praagh can talk with the dead?
Can dead-people-talking-to-mediums talk to jesus even though he’s no longer dead?
Very intriguing questions. I never thought of that angle…
- Jesus was a Jew. He often quoted the Old Testament, which is no surprise since He fulfilled many prophecies of the Old Testament. Off the top of my head I cannot think of any verses pointing to a statement by Jesus warning about talking with the dead. However the Old Testament warns against this type of behavior.
hmmm
Here’s a rather shocking example of an apparently successful attempt to talk with the dead:
1st Samuel 28
3 Now Samuel was dead, and all Israel had lamented him, and buried him in Ramah, even in his own city. And Saul had put away those that had familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land.
4 And the Philistines gathered themselves together, and came and pitched in Shunem: and Saul gathered all Israel together, and they pitched in Gilboa.
5 And when Saul saw the host of the Philistines, he was afraid, and his heart greatly trembled.
6 And when Saul enquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets.
7 Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor.
8 And Saul disguised himself, and put on other raiment, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night: and he said, I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and bring me him up, whom I shall name unto thee.
9 And the woman said unto him, Behold, thou knowest what Saul hath done, how he hath cut off those that have familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land: wherefore then layest thou a snare for my life, to cause me to die?
10 And Saul sware to her by the LORD, saying, As the LORD liveth, there shall no punishment happen to thee for this thing.
11 Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel.
12 And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul.
13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.
14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.
15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.
16 Then said Samuel, Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the LORD is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy?
17 And the LORD hath done to him, as he spake by me: for the LORD hath rent the kingdom out of thine hand, and given it to thy neighbour, even to David:
18 Because thou obeyedst not the voice of the LORD, nor executedst his fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore hath the LORD done this thing unto thee this day.
19 Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the LORD also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines.
20 Then Saul fell straightway all along on the earth, and was sore afraid, because of the words of Samuel: and there was no strength in him; for he had eaten no bread all the day, nor all the night.
- With all the stuff out there I suppose someone might indeed claim that, although I don’t recall ever having heard of it. Lekatt mentioned some fairly recent alleged words of Jesus earlier in this thread, but I have the impression that channeling was somehow involved in the book he mentioned. I could be wrong.
Btw, I talk to Jesus. It’s called prayer.
P.S. We do have a warning, not from Jesus, about things like this in the New Testament:
1 John 4
Test the Spirits
1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
Sorry. I guess I should have used the NIV:
3 Now Samuel was dead, and all Israel had mourned for him and buried him in his own town of Ramah. Saul had expelled the mediums and spiritists from the land.
4 The Philistines assembled and came and set up camp at Shunem, while Saul gathered all the Israelites and set up camp at Gilboa. 5 When Saul saw the Philistine army, he was afraid; terror filled his heart. 6 He inquired of the LORD , but the LORD did not answer him by dreams or Urim or prophets. 7 Saul then said to his attendants, “Find me a woman who is a medium, so I may go and inquire of her.”
“There is one in Endor,” they said.
8 So Saul disguised himself, putting on other clothes, and at night he and two men went to the woman. “Consult a spirit for me,” he said, “and bring up for me the one I name.”
9 But the woman said to him, “Surely you know what Saul has done. He has cut off the mediums and spiritists from the land. Why have you set a trap for my life to bring about my death?”
10 Saul swore to her by the LORD , “As surely as the LORD lives, you will not be punished for this.”
11 Then the woman asked, “Whom shall I bring up for you?”
“Bring up Samuel,” he said.
12 When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out at the top of her voice and said to Saul, “Why have you deceived me? You are Saul!”
13 The king said to her, “Don’t be afraid. What do you see?”
The woman said, "I see a spirit [1] coming up out of the ground."
14 “What does he look like?” he asked.
“An old man wearing a robe is coming up,” she said.
Then Saul knew it was Samuel, and he bowed down and prostrated himself with his face to the ground.
15 Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?”
“I am in great distress,” Saul said. “The Philistines are fighting against me, and God has turned away from me. He no longer answers me, either by prophets or by dreams. So I have called on you to tell me what to do.”
16 Samuel said, “Why do you consult me, now that the LORD has turned away from you and become your enemy? 17 The LORD has done what he predicted through me. The LORD has torn the kingdom out of your hands and given it to one of your neighbors-to David. 18 Because you did not obey the LORD or carry out his fierce wrath against the Amalekites, the LORD has done this to you today. 19 The LORD will hand over both Israel and you to the Philistines, and tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. The LORD will also hand over the army of Israel to the Philistines.”
20 Immediately Saul fell full length on the ground, filled with fear because of Samuel’s words. His strength was gone, for he had eaten nothing all that day and night.