Yes, it’s hard to concentrate when a library has been turned into a daycare center. The people who are there reading are most likely reading material that cannot be removed from the library or they would leave.
It’s been a year at most since I’ve been in a library (which I visit to do research) and I’ve never experienced the behavior described by the op. There is no reason for it beyond a lack of consideration for others.
What, the people attending a local MP’s surgery (not sure what the American equivilant is; an MP surgery is your local elected representative’s drop-in Q&A/discussion forum) in a library should whisper just because some people can’t read with noise around?
The idea that everyone else should bend over backward to accomodate such an issue is ridiculous. Really, it’s their problem, they should find a way to deal with it, not expect everyone else to make allowances. A library is a public place, and when you’re in public you have to deal with people talking.
We don’t do surgery in American libraries, theaters, churches or other places where quiet is expected. It’s not a function of bending over backwards. It’s called manners.
Now most Libraries in my area have separate rooms designed for speaking engagements. Again, these are not child daycare rooms. They are there so one person can speak to a group. The rules of civility apply there too.
I disagree that it is necessarily bad manners to speak in a place where some people might prefer quiet. In my opinion it’s bad manners to expect another human being to conform to your preferences when theirs are perfectly reasonable - in this case, to be allowed to communicate with each other, a very basic human desire and need.
And to reiterate, being unable to read in a non-silent environment is an issue with you, not with everyone else, so it’s your issue to deal with.
There is also a very basic human desire that you should shut the fuck up when you are in a library, church, synagogue, theater or other venue where people are not congregating to hear the sound of your voice.
Seriously, after reading all those “theater ettiquete” threads I have to ask what the fuck is wrong with people? People do not have the right to be outraged because someone has the “bad manners” to ask someone to stop acting like a rude, inconsiderate jerk.
Or has all this social networking and blogging and internet surfing in isolation led people to believe they are literally the center of their own universe?
You can disagree all you want but it’s still bad manners to talk in places that warrant quiet. That goes for libraries, movie theaters, churches and any other place where people do not wish to share in your conversation.
Your preface that it’s a human need and desire to talk does not preclude whispering in a manner appropriate for the environment you’re in.
See, you’re not getting that your preferences do not equal good manners, and that anyone who doesn’t conform to your preferences is not automatically rude. And you use a phrase like “manner appropriate for the environment you’re in” as though your opinion of what constitutes appropriate is immutable fact.
Maybe you think the world revolves around you, but I am very aware that other people have other preferences and prefer a “live and let live” philosophy. To me, YOU are being rude in wanting to impose your preferences. In your house, you get to decide the the “manner appropriate for the environment”. In a public library (or any public place), you don’t.
My local library has a cafe in it.
A lot of people go there to work, including me. They have desks and power and wifi. Community groups meet there. It’s mostly pretty quiet, except after school, when the kids come in to talk and play games. Or when there’s someone talking on a cellphone.
I bring noise-isolating earphones.
While I agree with Magiver about acting in accordance with the expected rules of where you’re at, I have to say in regards to libraries, that isn’t the best argument.
Most libraries don’t have rules specifying quiet any more, and several have rules specifically ALLOWING various levels of noise now.
Libraries are no longer places where “common courtesy” expects people to be quiet. They’ve gone from being like churches or cemetaries to more like mall food courts or town squares. I’m sorry that you don’t like it, and I really do mean that - I am a librarian, and I like to help people and make them happy. But the majority of our patrons like it better this way than when we were quiet and strict. 
I think that a lot of people (especially older people, or academically-minded people) are expecting academic-library atmospheres from public libraries, and that’s never going to happen again. It USED to be true because the majority of patrons came in, got a book, read a book, read the newspaper, and left.
The majority of our users NOW come here to use the internet, to have a somewhat quiet (haha) and professional place to use their phones, laptops, and faxes to conduct their business, and to attend events - usually centered around children, but including book discussion groups, quilting bees, and other non-book related activities. Sure, people still come in to look for books, but even that involves catalog computers and noisy typing on a keyboard!
When people are passing in and out of our meeting rooms (which aren’t soundproof anyway) or are filling up our computer stations (which are in the middle of the library) or are congregating for a summer children’s program, then things are going to get a little loud.
I actually prefer it that way. When we’re humming with activity, we can see people using and enjoying our various services, and we feel appreciated and part of the community - those patrons who need and use us are going to fight for us to stay open and stay in their towns and community centers. If we’re dead as a doornail and quiet as a morgue, then we don’t have a leg to stand on when budget cuts come around every year.
It’s not just a matter of reading. Yes, if all you’re doing is killing a little time, you might well do that at home. Often it’s not so much reading as studying or doing research, and it needs to be done where the resources are available. Even if they could be checked out, there are probably too many of them, and you might not know exactly which of them you need until you’re well into it.
There’s nothing wrong with expecting people to respect others’ needs in a public place, especially one where those needs are intrinsic to at least one of the planned uses of the venue. I doubt anyone really expects total quiet in a library anymore, but it doesn’t hurt anyone to take into account the actual use of a library for one of its main purposes, which is to allow people to use resources they don’t otherwise have access to.
Manners as a discipline involve a skill-set designed to accommodate the people around you. They are not up for debate. You simple don’t understand the concept.
You lack this skill and are trying to argue on an individual basis (yours). You apparently feel justified bothering other people because it fits YOUR needs. It’s bad manners to intrude on the peace of others around you. In this specific thread that means talking in whispered tones and not allowing children to run and scream through a room.
Uh, manners are indeed up for debate. Hell, I can’t think of anything MORE up for debate. Go check out any of the recent threads that discuss what people consider to be good manners in specific situations, and look at all the debate.
So yeah, get over yourself. You have opinions, not the right to dictate what constitutes correct behaviour.
@ thirdwarning: I disagree that it’s everyone else’s responsibility to make allowances. If you have a problem it’s your problem, not everyone else’s. Therefore, if you can’t concentrate in a noisy situation, bring noise-cancelling headphones like someone who posted earlier does.
No, they are not. You either practice them, or you don’t.
I’m in an academic library, and you’re not going to find that atmosphere in many of them either - at least not throughout the building. Students do lots of group work, and that work is often done in the library, with the associated conversation.
I’m at an urban research university, and our library is the center of campus - we have primarily commuter students and this is where they come to study, to socialize, to pass a little time between classes, especially on rainy or cold days.
There are days that we have more than 12,000 unique visitors swipe into the building, it’s not going to be a quiet, solemn study space and most of our students don’t need/want that. We do have an area that is designated for quiet study for those students that need that kind of space.
I could make similar comments about previous workplaces as well. The library - public and academic - is a third place, as makerspaces, as the kind of places that communities need - but don’t want to build new spaces for in many cities and towns.
It really doesn’t work like that. You are not the ultimate authority on what constitutes good manners. There isn’t any such authority. They’re very much open to debate, subjective matters of opinion, and as has been proven at great length on many threads over the last two weeks, we all have different points of view on what good manners are. You are no one special; your idea of manners are not the be-all and end-all on the subject. So, again: get over yourself.
It has nothing to do with authority. You really and truly do not understand the concept of good manners. Not even a little.
Magiver, your tone is intruding on my enjoyment of this thread.
It’s been quite some time since I was in college but it was specifically where we went to study (the library). And we kept our voices down if it was a group project. There were many many other places on campus where we would go to socialize.
Times change.
Exactly - it has nothing to do with authority, because there is no authority on what constitute good manners. Therefore, your belief that it is good manners to behave according to your preferences in a library is not absolute - since you are not an authority. So why are you dictating what good and bad manners are like you are the authority?
Particularly when several people, including librarians, have pointed out that your idea of how to behave in a library is no longer even consensus, let alone absolute.