I love libraries. Ditto librarians. I know there are a few on the boards, and I hope they’ll chime in here. But I’d also like to hear others’ opinions on this gripping, important topic.
I was once in the library getting a tour and someone was shushed near the circulation desk. The librarian said “No, this is the working floor of the library. No need to be quiet here.”
So I’ve been going by that rule. Not stomping around like an elephant, of course, but I don’t expect quiet anywhere near the circulation desk or anywhere that the library conducts business face-to-face. Quiet is for where people are reading or studying, but not (as I was lead to believe as a child) throughout the entire library.
So. What’s up. I’ve been waiting (in my typically cranky and cantankerous way) for some uptight sanctimonious library patron to rudely shush someone near me when I’m waiting to check out books so I can snap “Ease up, Frances, this is the working floor of the library.” But before I do so (and I’ve been waiting years for the opportunity, by the way) I wanna know if I’m nuts.
And this is why I love you. You’ve succintly enumerated all the things I’m getting at.
Do librarians on the board agree that you don’t have to be quiet in working areas of the library? Do Dopers? Or was the librarian who told me that smokin’ something funny? I would gather that if the answer to my three questions as listed just now are no, no, and yes, then the answer to your question #3 would be yes, Cranky probably is being too noisy when she’s in the library.
As for your question number four, I guess that speaks to whether or not I care too much about a ridiculous topic, whether I can author posts that make an ounce of friggin’ sense, and whether I need to get a life rather than stalking libraries for years waiting to ream someone for an inopportune “shush.”
Well, I used to work in the library when I was in college. We never used the term “working floor”, but we certainly didn’t whisper when we were working most of the time, especially in the back rooms and areas where patrons did not go. We didn’t really expect patrons to whisper when they were at the circulation or reference desks, either–they were fairly separated from the study areas, anyway. “Inside voices” were fine. The concept of a “working floor” was there, even if we didn’t use that term. I don’t ever recall anyone complaining about it, either.
The only exception was when the head librarian of the university library system happened to be around (this was very, very rare.) He demanded silence, and our boss would always need to remind us of that fact when he was around. That was strange–to go from such a common-sense state of affairs to this strange hushed silence. If we would have had to work like that all the time, I’d have gone nuts. Thank goodness he wasn’t around our area very much.
One of my jobs there was to move part of the collection around. This sometimes involved taking down and putting up shelving units. Then, we actually got to be noisy in the library. We loved it :).
I’m sure that the “working floor” concept varies from library to library. In a well-designed library, the circ desk should be far enough away/separated somehow from the study areas that your voices won’t disturb your average patron in the reading/study areas. This may not always be the case. I’ve never seen a library that has those signs that say “silence” the way I remember on “Sesame Street”, though.
If the boss is as cantankerous as our head librarian was, all bets are off :).
As a librarian in a big public library, I can tell you where to expect it to be quiet, and it will never be the circulation desk. That’s the highest traffic area. What do you expect?
I suppose if you were running around screaming at the top of your lungs and firing a bazooka, someone might tell you to keep it down, but that’s about it. (And everyday we can expect someone running around screaming at the top of his lungs, although these people usually don’t have bazookas.)
It’s usually not quiet around the reference desk. Why? Because the librarians have to TALK to people to help them. We don’t talk in stage whispers. We haven’t since “The Music Man” was filmed.
If you go to the Children’s Department, it will usually be fairly noisy. Mainly because there are kids around, lots of them, and what do you expect?
If you want quiet, go to a far corner of a reading room as far removed as you can be from the reference desk and also the area where books are being sorted.
I can tell you that I’ve been told to be quiet by people and all I’m doing is talking in my normal voice. If you come up to me and tell me to be quiet, the librarian, I will put you on my personal “Marked for Death” list and I will likely have you ejected from the library if you complain a second time. If you complain about another person in the library, I will usually come by and take a look, but the simplest method to rectify such situations is to move away from the noisy person.
My favorite complaint by someone who thought I was talking too loud was when the guy came up to me and asked me to lower my voice “an octave or two”. Apparently he gave me credit for having a wide vocal range. My coworker turned to me and asked, “Who does he think you are, Yma Sumac, or something?”
In response to BobT: i wasn’t quite sure how to interpret your remark about complaints. If someone complains about another person making noise in a part of the library where silence is expected do you still tell that person that the best solution is to move? If so, it seems to me that you’re defeating the purpose of the library as a place to work. While the strategy of simply moving would be ok if the disturbed person knew that he or she would be able to find a quiet place, and that it would stay quiet, the fact that many libraries are often full of people talking with each other or (even worse) on mobile phones makes this difficult. Also, by placing the onus for moving on the person being disturbed rather than confronting the noisemaker, you tacitly condone the practice and ensure its likely continuation.
I fully agree that to expect silence in circulation areas is absurd, but elsewhere in the library should be a bit of a haven from the noise of the world. I’m a grad student, and at my university one of the perennial complaints of my grad student friends is the lack of consideration shown by undergrads who see the library as a meeting place. Well, that’s what coffee shops and lawns are for.
I’m only speaking from a public librarian’s point of view. Public libraries are by their nature much more noisy than a university library. The latter have a higher expectation of quietness. In a public library, it’s open to the public and you have very little ability to maintain places that will be extraordinarily quiet.
A person who is being disruptive to the functioning of the library will be removed, but if someone is noisy because of the nature of their work is another matter.
Most college libraries ban cell phone use inside their buildings. Many public libraries don’t because public library administrators don’t like to say “no” to anything.
I am not a librarian (but I did work in a library). I’d also venture that the idea of noise really depends on each different library. For example, in one library I’ve gone to (a public library), the circulation desk is next to quiet reading areas. Hence, the library is quiet all over, and even when talking to patrons the circulation clerks use a fairly quiet tone of voice. In another library (academic) there is a floor which is a bit lower than the other floors, and contains almost all public services. This floor seems to fit the idea of “working floor” precisely, as it is somewhat busy at all times, but all other floors are where study areas and books are located and are so quiet that you could hear a pin drop. In yet another public library, it’s basically loud everywhere. There’s no concept of silence whatsoever in that library. It’s not a rock concert by any means, but people talk everywhere there in normal conversational tones.
As usual, BobT beat me to it with a thorough, well-worded and useful answer. But here’s another verse from the same song:
I’ve worked for three good-sized public library systems and none of them have ever tried to maintain the Silence-is-Gold Standard. My current employer encourages quiet in much the same way my previous employers do, which is to say by having a rule saying you’ll get in trouble if you make too much noise.
“Too much noise” is, of course, a subjective thing and it works better that way. What qualifies as too noisy on a Tuesday morning after storytime has just let out and there are twelve toddlers and their caregivers suddenly all interested in the same three shelves of books is different from what qualifies as too noisy on a Sunday afternoon when the building is mostly full of high-school students trying to do their homework. Of course, even on that Tuesday morning, if one of the toddlers starts doing a pterodactyl impression, it won’t be long before one of us wanders over to see if maybe it’s time to go play outside.
Now, if another patron complains, we have to take things a little more seriously. Unless their complaint is completely unreasonable (“That person reading the newspaper next to me won’t stop turning the pages so loudly” – no kidding) we usually do have to at least approach the alleged perp and alert them to the fact that they are “disturbing other patrons” (this is the actual wording from our rules which indicates that you are making “too much noise”). More often than not, though, the answer lies is one or the other of the people involved moving to some other location. We are fortunate to have a small quiet study room that patrons can sign up for if the overall noise level of the library is outside their comfort zone. Unfortunately, some people get in that room and wind up making so much noise that we have to come tell them to quiet down. No kidding again.
As to cell phones, we have a “please take it outside” policy which is usually only enforced for a few fairly enclosed spaces within the building where even quiet conversation is very disruptive.
The Library of Congress is divided into “reading rooms”, where silence is appreciated away from the information desks. The main reading room is a sight to behold, and people with questions are directed to the information center which is located in a separate, adjacent room. Perhaps because of the domed ceiling, a dropped pencil can sound like it was broadcast over a public address system, so they’re quite serious about being quiet in there.
God, I knew it. I knew you kept those little lists. Drunk with power, aren’t you? I find it sexy. Librarians: Smart, access to books galore, and armed for bear, so to speak.
We librarians are like the ones depicted in today’s NY Times.
(free registration required)
To add to KneadToKnow’s post, I’ve also had people complain about people turning newspaper pages too loudly. But people also get into fights over newspapers. The most commonly fought-over paper: USA Today.
Short attention span reading breeds short tempers.
BobT is right as a general rule, CrankyAsAnOldMan. That will get you thrown out.
The trick is to be able to get in when they’re closed. Plus, then you can be as loud as you want, too. A good way to accomplish this is to actually seduce one of those librarians you’re so fond of.
