Actually I agree with Magiver 100%. Like I said, I come from an era (the 70s and 80s) when the libraries had rules about talking even in conversational tones because it was often disturbing to other patrons. It was understood that we needed to speak in whispers and it was nothing any of us questioned. I even remember a mother bringing in some children back in that era who started running around and getting noisy and she immediately removed them. To people who say that it’s my “problem” because I don’t want to hear others’ conversation, okay maybe it is but my original point here is that up until the library changed its policies this NEVER WAS a problem because it was EXPECTED BEHAVIOR on the part of library patrons to NOT hold lengthy conversations or talk in our normal volumes BECAUSE it was considered rude and inconsiderate to the other patrons. I see that the definitions of rude and inconsiderate seem to have changed since I was a youth.
@Sevencl: I am curious. If you were in a church where a certain decorum was expected and you began loudly having a conversation with another person while other members of the congregation were trying to pray, and if said congregants asked you to be quiet or take it outside, would you then tell them “Hey this is YOUR problem NOT mine! Deal with it!”
No, you are coming across as socially clueless. It doesn’t matter why. The fact that you don’t care that your behavior is rude and annoying makes you rude and annoying.
AFWIF, talking on a cell phone is annoying because a) people tend to talk lounder than normal on their phones and b) hearing half a conversation is jarring to people.
Um, I can’t imagine why I’d be in a church in the first place. I realise that’s not an answer, but what I mean is, I know why I go to a library and sometimes it involves talking, but I have no idea why I’m suddenly in this church or whether or not that reason involves talking.
Missed edit window: also I talk at my normal volume on my phone on the rare occasions I talk on the phone at all - I text, IM or email from it, usually. And if hearing half a conversation is annoying, well I’m very sorry, would you like me to turn on the speaker so you can eavesdrop on the other half? I realise you can’t NOT listen when someone is talking nearby, but it’s crazy to have a problem with not getting to hear the entire thing.
Not argumentative at all. People zone out on their phone and are oblivious to their surroundings. They talk louder. Everybody in the room hears the conversation. People talking to each other in the room naturally talk in a muted volume. The polite thing to do when dealing with a phone call is to excuse yourself at the earliest moment in conversation with other people and call the person back in a remote location. It’s polite both for the people you are talking to, those around you and the person at the other end who has some expectations of privacy. There are of course, exceptions but this is the general rule for handling phone calls.
Okay, so the time range you’ve just mentioned means you’re judging the world based on information from 33-43 years ago. Do you remember what libraries had back then? Certainly not computers, noisy printers for patrons’ use, most a/v materials, or a large selection of films and television on [VHS/DVD], let alone games available to check out. Because we offer more and are more than merely a place to study/do research, libraries have changed what’s considered appropriate. It’s totally fine to ask for something in a volume in which I, the librarian, can hear you. If you’re whispering so quietly that I can’t hear you, I’m going to ask you to speak up. Why? I can’t help you if I can’t hear you. Do I expect people to run or yell or speak loudly in the library? No. Will I go over and talk to a patron if their voices are deemed “too loud” for someone trying to work near them? Usually-- I do occasionally have people who’ll sit themselves right next to a study group that’s been there for hours in a non-quiet area and then complain that people are talking about the project they’re working on; those folks can use a study room or find a quiet area of the library to sit in.
There are options for quiet in libraries, and options for people to talk in normal voices in libraries; you don’t get to declare every library a tomb of silence because that’s what it was like when you were young.
I personally go somewhere to take the call because if someone’s phoning me, it’s probably important and therefore probably personal. That said, I wouldn’t have a problem with someone taking a phone call at their normal speaking volume.
As I discovered in the “things I find rude and will make me look down on you” thread, some people have pretty low bars for rudeness. For me, being slightly annoyed by other peoples’ habits is an inevitable part of living in such large, diverse societies.
I stated this upthread as well as my experiences with my local libraries. Patrons are still expected to keep the noise level down in the areas where people are reading. In our main library we have a room dedicated to newspapers, periodicals and microfilm as well as a room for historical research. the remainder of the library is broken up into the general shelf books (with reading areas) as well as rooms for lectures and whatnot as well as sections of the library for children.
Yes I am obviously aware that over 30 years have passed. But how does the fact that the library now offers DVDs and movies as well as computers excuse the patrons from having loud conversations? I could request a movie, dvd, cd, or a book (just like I did 30 plus years ago) WITHOUT having to have a loud conversation about it. And as I recall, no librarian ever had to ask me to repeat myself when I did request a certain book over 30 years ago because she wasn’t able to hear me. As for quiet areas, unless it’s a specific room where I can shut the door and not hear anybody else, then what good does it do me? Sound travels pretty easily, especially if people are talking in conversational tones. That’s the equivalent of having a “non-smoking section of a restaurant” separated by one booth that’s part of the back of a smoking section so the smoke can waft over to the other side very easily.
Maybe you have a friend whose grandmother was a devout Catholic and she died and you are now at her funeral simply to be there for your friend. You happen to be sitting next to several other people who may not be religious either but still they are there at this Catholic Church because said friend was close to his grandmother and you all want to be there to give support and consolation to your friend. You look around Our Lady of Miraculous Medal Catholic Church and you notice that others are praying before the funeral starts. Do you decide to have one of those conversations with your associates in the pew with you in your normal tone of voice like you say you would do in the library even though you notice that others are praying quietly (like others may be trying to study quietly in the library) but you think to yourself “Hey if I’m disturbing a bunch of church people that I wouldn’t normally be around anyway by having a conversation in a church where quiet is supposed to be observed, well too damn bad! That’s THEIR problem, not mine” even though you know that you are blatantly disturbing the other congregants? Okay does that help? No offense but like you said, you really didn’t answer the question.
It’s strange that it’s only old men who are being patronizing to folks who actually work in the profession in the thread. :rolleyes: Please tell me again how your reality as someone who doesn’t actually visit libraries trumps mine as someone who’s worked in them as a professional for several years.
Whether it’s a large diverse society or a small non-diverse society the rules of politeness still apply. Whether you feel the rules of politeness are set too high is your opinion. That you choose to ignore them is your choice. You’re being rude when it is within your capacity not to do so. You feel you have a right to annoy other people rather than look at the situation as one where you are living in a large diverse society. You don’t see how this affects you when inevitably someone will exceed your level of acceptable behavior and treat you as the person who needs to get over it.
Uh, no. In the situation you describe, I’d do my best to support my friend, which probably doesn’t involve much casual chatter. It would have nothing to do with people praying, though. I can’t imagine why you’re asking, this situation doesn’t even remotely resemble the library issue.
Just as a side note, for all of those who think whispering is the only acceptable noise allowed in libraries: I have never worked in a library where I wasn’t right next to at least one machine that made a good deal of white noise. Usually I’m close enough to either a printer or a large number of computers upon which people are typing; this creates enough background noise that I’m not going to hear your little mouse peeps if you insist on whispering for help. Don’t be surprised if I ask you to speak up because of background noise due to machines.
I do visit libraries. Again, you can’t be bothered to read what I posted earlier. I may not do it weekly but when I do it’s usually for months at a time. My idea of research would be something like reading a year’s worth of an archived newspaper or pour through every photo in a given collection.
If your libraries have no expectations of quiet in the areas where the reading material cannot be checked out then that is not how we operate in my libraries. Maybe they’re just a little smarter around here and can figure out how to lay out a building with multiple rooms in it so it’s functional to all it’s patrons.
This situation is an example of good manners and relates directly to the issue at hand. You don’t give a damn about the religious aspect of the funeral yet you respect those around you enough to speak in an appropriate volume so as not to disturb them. The same applies in a doctor’s office, a restaurant, an airplane or any other confined area where your conversation will be heard.
Your position has been it’s their problem, they should bring noise cancelling headsets or leave. You’re going to do what you want regardless.
Huh? I do no such thing. I have nothing but contempt for religion or the religious. In the scenario as presented I’d keep my mouth shut because I care about my friend and don’t want to turn their loved one’s funeral into a fight because that would upset them. That has nothing to do with respect and doesn’t even remotely resemble the library situation.
How many times do I have to repeat the same thing? There are quiet areas designated for study. It’s not the whole building, but it’s a significant portion of it. If you’re at the reference or check-out desk, you don’t need to whisper.
Please read for comprehension before trying to tell me that I’m not understanding you.
My university library had three floors, each with a different designated sound level. The first floor was a group study floor, with lots of collaboration tables, open meeting spaces and lounge space. This is where you’d go if you were hashing out a group project or meeting with a study group to practice for a test. The second floor was for “quiet study”, where hushed conversation and very light group work was allowed. The room was set up with lots of four seater tables and couches. This is where you’d go with your friends to study but not necessarily work together. The top floor was the “silent” floor, and it was geared toward individual study. Throughout the library there were group reservable and impromptu group study spaces, as well as a number of quiet rooms for people who really want it silent.
Every level was connected to a stairwell where you could have open conversation and talk on the phone.
