…the actions of the police in those videos are indefensible on their own. It doesn’t matter what the hospitals did. Feel free to rant about the hospital in the “controversial encounters between hospitals and civilians thread”. But in this thread? Those police should be in fucking jail.
Fuck that bullshit.
“Well you’re gonna have to get up and figure out a way to get gone.”
“Stop. That’s not gonna work. You’ve been medically cleared. WALK.”
“Oh my fucking jesus lord mary goats.”
“Now your’re starting to piss me off. Get up.”
“This is all an act. She has been discharged.”
“LISTEN TO ME!!! THIS IS THE LORD’S DAY. ALL I WANT TO DO IS GET ME SOME COFFEE AND SOME OATMEAL. I’M NOT GONNA DEAL WITH YOUR MESS THIS MORNING. WE’VE ALREADY SPENT TOO MUCH TIME ON YOU.”
Here’s what you seem to be missing.
THEY FUCKING KILLED HER.
She had no chance.
There was nothing she could have said or done to change the outcome.
She couldn’t have complied because she had a stroke and was physically incapable of doing so.
She would never have been able to convince them because she was preventing them from getting fucking coffee and oatmeal.
She was treated worse than they would treat a dog in her last moments on earth. He pulled her by the fucking hair because even in death he thought that she was faking.
What the hell is this “rougher than they needed to be” bullshit? It wasn’t that they were rough. It’s because they cared so fucking little about her that they just let her die.
The police didn’t kill her, and the hospitals didn’t kill her.
Republicans killed her.
The system they demand we have for healthcare ensured that this sick lady would get turfed from a hospital, to be left without care until her illness completely incapacitated her so that she could either go back to an emergency room to die, or die wherever she was sitting. The only twist here is that instead of meekly going home to die like everyone else this happens to, she didn’t actually have a home in Knoxville to go to. She got to ride around in a police car being abused by cops before she passed away.
…nah. The police killed her. Its right there, on video.
Nah. It was the fucking cops. They had every opportunity to do things differently. But that cop chose to yell:
The Republicans didn’t force him to say that. There are plenty of threads to haul the Republicans over the coals. But this is the perfect thread to call the police out. And it certainly isn’t the place to give them a pass on this.
I suggest using the term “private citizens”. “Civilians” weaponizes people, and a lot of police forces are quasi-military anyway these days, using military weapons on private citizens.
Coming from Albuquerque, where the police are under federal judicial watch for the second time for shooting people first and asking questions later, I’m not in favor of police unions. That enables them to investigate themselves for criminal behavior. Good luck on that!
A citizen’s review board w/ teeth and getting the right police chief are what might keep innocent people from being killed. Unless someone removes the immunity clauses that are granted to them, not much will change though.
If Republicans didn’t do what they did, she would be alive today.
If the cops didn’t abuse her the way they did, if they had kindly and decently offered her a non-custodial ride anywhere she wanted to go in the city, she’d simply have died wherever they brought her. They didn’t have the power to make the hospital re-admit her as a patient.
…if the Democrats weren’t complicit in a system that worships the free market, she would be alive today.
You want to damn the system? Then call the fucking system out. There are no innocent parties. But here? What we saw on that video was the cops fault.
Perhaps. But perhaps not. I can’t imagine a police playbook anywhere in the world where the suggested course of action if the suspect is showing clear signs of a stroke is to yell at her, blaming he because they didn’t get their fucking coffee and oatmeal. If they had done their jobs she might be alive right now.
But they didn’t give her that choice. Once the police arrived on the scene, her fate was sealed. That was it. Game over. No path to survival. That is all on the police.
But what was clear in that video is that the police didn’t let Lisa Edwards die with dignity. This is the police pit thread for fucks sakes. You don’t have to defend them here.
I’m not sure how their jobs involve getting medical treatment for a person who is being actively discharged from the hospital that’s been treating them. They can’t arrest a hospital for not giving someone a bed.
Yes, it’s the police pit thread, after 3,300 posts there is plenty to complain about, let’s stick to what the police actually did wrong. Here… they abused a terribly sick person who wound up dead from a stroke, and sure as hell deserve to lose their jobs, which we know they won’t.
Obviously the only two options available here are to either:
arrest the hospital or
treat her like garbage and let her die in the back of a patrol car, yanking on her hair like she was a mannequin.
I’m pretty sure they had other options available to them.
Yeah, lets stick to pitting the police and leave the out-of-left-field-party-bashing for another thread. Because the problems with healthcare in the United States goes beyond just the Republicans. The entire system is broken and the mainstream Democrat solution is to put a band aid on it.
I think that there is plenty of blame to go around, and not all of it can or should be heaped on the police.
She died due to Republican led policies that prevented her from accessing the healthcare she needed. There is nothing that the police in this situation could have done to prevent that.
Now, that she died being treated as she was, that is all on the cops.
Right, and the option that they usually take in a situation like this is to simply drop them off somewhere where they will die alone. You are correct that they made her last moments of life far worse than they should have been, but she would have died regardless of what the cops did here.
Unless one of them was a brain surgeon and was able to operate in the back of the cruiser, there’s nothing these cops could have done to save her life, even if they believed her over the medical professionals that told the cops that she was medically fine.
No one is excusing the cops in this situation, but you are excusing the “health care” system that created the situation.
I’ll give you this… if they did everything right, maybe they could have saved her life. Maybe, if she collapsed at just the right time and place for them to get her quickly re-admitted to the place that she should already have been.
It’s not out of left field because it’s 100% exactly why she died. She was IN THE HOSPITAL ALREADY, already in the only place that could treat her, and the hospital kicked her out.
Half our country wants the broken system we have, and half want to fix it. You can’t fix a fucking thing when half the country doesn’t want it fixed, and it’s bullshit to blame the half that want to fix it but are actively prevented from doing so by the other half.
…she was showing clear signs of a stroke in the video well before they tried to get her in the van. Waiting for her to actually collapse (further than what we saw) would have been negligent. What they actually did, in any country that wasn’t fundamentally broken, should have been criminal.
We saw why she died. She was showing signs of a stroke. Even if she had just been discharged, people can relapse. People can be perfectly fine one minute and then not be fine the next. Its entirely possible for the police to make an assessment on the spot based on the symptoms she was exhibiting in front of them and taken her back in.
But they didn’t do that. They didn’t even let her just sit in the chair with an officer while the rest of them went to get coffee and oatmeal.
Is the system so fundamentally irrevocably broken in America that you literally can’t see what the police did wrong here? When someone is in medical distress you can do more than just shrug your shoulders, call for a wagon and try and throw her in the back.
She was showing clear signs of a stroke. You talk to the hospital, you tell them this.
Bullshit.
“Hey, this patient that you discharged is showing symptoms of a stroke. Can you send someone out here to assess her?”
They didn’t have to be a brain surgeon to do that. A basic knowledge of first aid would be enough to be able to recognize the symptoms.
Bullshit.
Start a US Healthcare system pit thread and I’ll happily jump over there and pit away. The US healthcare system is the worst in the developed world. Its designed to enrich people and even the mainstream Democrat solutions don’t do anything but paper over the cracks. And I’ve done my fair-share of Republican bashing in my time.
But people are excusing the cops. You literally just excused the cops with your “brain surgeon” bullshit.
About 5% of the people in the US are non-citizen lawful permanent residents, and another 3-4% are undocumented (but almost certainly non-citizens). There are also probably half a million foreign tourists/visitors in the US on any given day, so “residents” doesn’t really cover everyone either. “Civilians” is a good broad word that covers all of these categories; it may be difficult to come up with an equally broad alternative term.
You know, you’re kind of winning me over here, to a point. I still don’t think they killed her but they failed her massively failed her in ways the police always fail people.
It highlights something that is fundamentally wrong with policing in this country. Namely that when the police identify you as a law-breaker, they stop seeing you as a person who they need to protect, a person who deserves to be safe. They see you as someone they need to protect everyone else from. The person who had a breakdown and has a knife… they think “I need to protect myself and everyone else from this guy” they don’t think “How can I end this so HE doesn’t get hurt?”
At no point did they ever think “how can I make sure SHE is safe?” They rarely think that about people they’re arresting or investigating.
Are you saying that cops should think that their medical opinion is better than that of medical professionals? If so, you must also think it should also go the other way, where a doctor says someone’s having a stroke, but the cop, in their medical opinion, doesn’t think they are?
You are really bad at actually reading what people say, aren’t you? You just want to yell and scream “bullshit” while ignoring what it actually is that you are actually calling out.
Sometimes you have some good points to make, but most of the time you are just a ball of incoherent rage, lashing out in anger, often against those who would align with you, if you weren’t pushing them away by looking for any excuse to be actively hostile to everyone around you.
Lots of blame to go around and it’s pointless to argue that only one of these is the only reason. (except the title of this thread indicates the main topic of discussion) That being said,
Failure of the political system that focusses on big money donations saying outrageous shit to get your name on Fox News and getting re-elected rather than doing anything for the people. This led to:
Failure of the medical system and it’s for-profit design, which puts primary priority on money and only secondary priority on health of the patient. This led to:
Failure of the medical professionals, where 2) above led them to not give a shit about a patient and commit medical malpractice by misdiagnosing a patient. This was in conjunction with:
Failure of the policing system which depersonalizes people, and institutionalizes a way of thinking where the police are there to fight the “enemy” which is the public, and not think of the public as people they are to serve and protect. Which led to:
Failure of these individual officers, who treated a dying woman with complete callousness and disrespect, and did not get her the help she needed or even exhibit basic humanity.
1,2 and 4 are “big picture” items that play out many times a day across the country. Very challenging to fix, and are a long term project.
3 and 5 are individual failures by people working in a shitty system. Still hard to fix, but perhaps something that can be worked on in a shorter time frame.