Controversial encounters between law-enforcement and civilians - the omnibus thread #2

On a broader level, facts are always curated. We don’t know if Mims had a wife waiting for him at home, because no one cares. We don’t know whether the officer who fired the taser was left handed or right handed, because it’s not relevant to this story. Those are both details that ARE sometimes relevant to this kind of story, and are sometimes presented.

I was an officer of a student square dance club when a woman came to our executive committee meeting to ask us to post something along the lines of “our dances take place on land stolen from native Americans” on our website. I replied that i was uncomfortable making the website political. She replied, " it’s not political, it’s just a fact". I pointed out that we don’t publish the square root of 2 on our website either. We post facts that we think are relevant to club members and other people who might read the website. We curate the facts. And how we curate them tells other people things about us.

more hijacky details

I’ve since read good arguments for posting that kind of indigenous land acknowledgement. But she didn’t present any at the time, instead she said something about such a notice being welcoming to indigenous students. Then someone noted that there aren’t many indigenous students at the school, but maybe we have a problem with being welcoming to Black students. We then got into a really awkward discussion about minorites and the club, and whether we should reach out in some way to Black students–i guess the really awkward part of that was that one of our two Black students was sitting there because I’d given her a ride, and she REALLY wanted no part of the conversation. I just kept hoping the conversation would end.

Ironically, the land we dance on is landfill, and in some technical factual sense was never lived on by indigenous people. But that fact is less relevant than the political impact of posting a statement.

Meanwhile, Coffee City, Texas, a town with 249 residents has been enjoying the dedicated protection of 50, count 'em, 50 police officers.

By protection, of course, I mean the traffic ticket protection racket – hauling in millions of bucks a year thanks to the hard-working efforts of the force, whose members include many fine upstanding cops whose exits from other departments had been, shall we say, somewhat less than honorable.

But wait! The city has chosen to defund their police – completely. Fired the whole force from the chief on down.

It should be noted that the dismissal grew out of investigative reporting by KHOU-TV.

The motivation for why police are doing something is incredibly important. That motivation can be the difference between the police respecting the laws and the police violating rights. Think of things like probable cause, imminent danger, and such.

Imagine two traffic stops that proceed exactly the same, and result in the discovery of drugs and the arrest of the driver. In one, there is documented evidence of the car running a traffic light. In the other the cop just thought the driver looked like he didn’t belong in the neighborhood. The reasons matter a great deal.

But in either traffic stop, if the police tased the guy when he wasn’t making any threat, the police would have been wrong.

Absolutely; the police can definitely use inappropriate force even when the arrest is justified. For a cite, just scroll up and find a story about it in this thread.

My point is that the police’s motivation determines whether the arrest or contact is justified in the first place. That’s just a general principle, and not specific to the band incident.

I guess I haven’t read either thread closely enough. I’ve seen little? No? Indication that anyone thinks that he was tased while directing or because he was directing. Perhaps an overblown headline? I, for one, am still interested in the urgency to get this particular band to stop, when other civilians were still present. I am a bothered by the claims that he should have stopped for the “safety of the children” “the future of the children” yet no one seems bothered that the lights were cut with the “children” still in the stand carrying in many cases heavy instruments. It bothers me that this director is being burdened with the trauma and future fecklessness? of these kids. All because a bunch of cops didn’t get the respect they thought they deserved.

He wasn’t tased because he wouldn’t stop directing, he was arrested because he didn’t just drop everything at their first barked order. Then tased because he was not happy about it And let them know it. HOW dare he question their orders?

The whole thing was a stupid waste of time. And a violent end to what was probably an otherwise enjoyable evening.

Lately I’ve been watching a bunch of “First Amendment Audit” videos on YT. Wow, what an eye opener. Most of the cops who show up are tyrants. It’s not they do not know the law. It’s that they don’t care about the law, and the Constitution, which is far worse.

@tofor, you keep going on about “just the facts”, but one of the facts here is that he wasn’t resisting arrest. He was just standing there, and just standing there isn’t resisting arrest. Resisting requires taking actions, not just refraining from taking actions.

I’m not quite sure about this. Here’s the Alabama statute:

Universal Citation: AL Code § 13A-10-41 (2022)

Section 13A-10-41

Resisting arrest.

(a) A person commits the crime of resisting arrest if he intentionally prevents or attempts to prevent a peace officer from affecting a lawful arrest of himself or of another person.

(b) Resisting arrest is a Class B misdemeanor.

I think he could be rightfully charged with resisting arrest, if it’s found that they were lawfully arresting him, which is not at all clear.

But, whether he can be charged with resisting arrest is a completely different question from the question of whether the use of force was reasonable.

My favorite was when one cop told an auditor “I don’t care about your First Amendment bullshit.” He said the quiet part out loud: the Constitution is an inconvenience to some cops.

Geez, even the statute writers in Alabama are rubes.

…nobody here is “misrepresenting” what happened in the video. The video speaks for itself.

It’s as much “recreational outrage” as what everyone else here is doing. You are outraged that people aren’t accepting your narrative. And you have to let everyone here know it.

Well he was tased. And he was just conducting a highschool band. Those are both facts.

People aren’t arguing that the sequence of events that lead to the tasing “didn’t happen.”

We are telling you that there are no reasons why that sequence of events had to happen in the first place.

And even if it did, when we got to the point that we see in the video before the police officer deployed his taser, it was clear that Johnny Mims was doing nothing that justified that taser use.

You are arguing against a strawman here. You are missing the context and the nuance from the posts other people have made.

About this “continually nonviolently resisting arrest” thing.

America has got a law enforcement problem. It such a big problem, that this thread is on its second iteration. We are only having this discussion because Mins got tased. This only came to everyone’s attention because this incident resulted in the stupidest possible conclusion.

But how many times does this happen where the bandleader doesn’t get tased? Instead, they just fall into compliance with a stupid police order given for no good reason at a fricken highschool football game where the police have no good reason to be there at all?

By focusing just “on the facts”, by making this about “continually nonviolently resisting arrest”, you miss the wider context. You miss the real problem here. That police in America are largely out-of-control. Over-funded. Little-to-no-oversight. Decentralized. Make-up-their-own-rules.

The tasing should never have happened. But putting Mims into a position where they felt he had to "continually nonviolently resist arrest” is the issue.

From the audio of the officer that used the taser:

If the officer wants to know how to “fix this”, if he is worried about “them babies on that bus that just got left”, if he is worried about people not trusting the police any more, then the only people that can fix this are the cops themselves.

Both controversial AND evil

Pennsylvania trooper arrested for committing mistress to mental facility by ‘painting her as crazy’

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/ronald-davis-pennsylvania-trooper-arrested-for-committing-mistress-to-mental-facility-by-painting-her-as-crazy/ar-AA1he0Vk?ocid=windirect&cvid=71d77e77d8a949698189d480465f1038&ei=97#image=1

The court documents stated that after her arrival, MF appeared to “genuinely lack understanding on why she is being restrained.” During the struggle, she allegedly suffered injuries to her forehead, torso, back, buttocks, forearms, knee, and lower body.

The victim was involuntarily committed for five days before being released on August 26. Once cops saw an exchange of messages between the pair, they didn’t think there was cause to force her into treatment, police said.

I watched that video last night. He’s vile.

Rule #1: Never speak ill of another cop

Morris testified Tuesday that he saw the driver holding a knife with a black metal handle that could have looked like a gun. He said Irizarry started to raise it as Dial approached the car, which had stopped while going the wrong way on the one-way street.

And had the window been rolled down, that may have meant something…

Par for the course for the Seattle PD. They are just the worst.

Not sure if this was covered in this thread, but I’m a bit surprised in the way the court ruled here. Cautiously pleased, but surprised.