Math. Math is my source. Larger numbers are bigger than smaller numbers.
OK, you name a BLM protest over a guy that was killed without justification and I will name one where the police were justified. I bet you run out before I do.
The case in Baltimore - where the young ,an called for medical help and was beaten and died as a result = the original police report stated that the girlfriend called for help. She didn’t. She was heard in the background of his call, saying "tell them to hurry"or something. Was that a justified use of force? Would it have been, if the original report stood?
We aren’t talking about a case of a cop shooting a black person for no “real” articulable reason.
Look, there is a huge disconnect between BLM and way too many people on the SDMB and the Internet, and normal people. When the cops stop you, and tell you to do something reasonable like “show me your hands” or “stand over here out of traffic while we try to figure out what your deal is” or “keep your hands out of your pockets” - you don’t get to say No. This is an order that you have to obey, NOT the opening of a negotiation. And that is NOT the same thing as saying “that entitles the cops to shoot you on a whim” or Jim Crow or a police state or any of the rest of that nonsense. That’s how an ordered society has to operate. The police have to be able to get/maintain control over the situation, because if every time they find some drug-addled ex-con raving in the middle of the street, they have to say Pretty Please with cream and sugar, sooner or later he is going to grab a gun.
It doesn’t make any difference if you are black and the cops busted your brother-in-law just because he was black and driving with expired tags or you got busted for no reason at all besides resisting arrest on a domestic violence call or that you read about black people being lynched in 1901 or whatever. You have to do what the police say. Not “no matter what” - when they tell you to do something reasonable like “keep your hands in sight”. It doesn’t matter that your father never stuck around long enough to teach you how an adult behaves when confronted with a situation where “I don’t WANNA” doesn’t cut any ice. There is such a thing as “legitimate authority”. The police have it. Sure, once in a while, they abuse it. Tough noogies - the need for it in 99% of police interactions with PCP-addled dipshits remains very real.
Regards,
Shodan
This is a remarkably cavalier attitude about police abuse of authority.
And you just showed your racism. Thanks.
What about when a bunch of plainclothes cops start yelling unclear orders? What if the guy asks a question and the cops grab him? It’s often not nearly as clear as you make it out to be. And when people grow up with legitimate reasons to see police officers as actual deadly enemies, then you’re essentially demanding something that’s impossible. For the vast majority of American history, including living memory of millions of black Americans, many or most police departments were violent and brutal enemies of black people. Sheriff Bull Connor wasn’t unusual for his time, and his kind didn’t disappear when the 60s ended. If that’s changed (and I believe it has to some degree), the change has been gradual and not sudden. Some departments have progressed more than others.
In many parts of America, you’re asking for something as difficult as asking black people to comply immediately with orders from members of the KKK. In some parts of America, you’re literally asking for black people to comply immediately with orders from KKK members.
Life’s harsh realities exist, attitude notwithstanding.
No, I’m not, and the suggestion is completely idiotic.
Regards,
Shodan
*That’s just the way it is
Some things will never change
That’s just the way it is
Ah, but don’t you believe them
*
PCP-Addled Dipshit is a race now? I’ll believe that when they put it on the census form, after “Aleutian Islander”.
Regards,
Shodan
Racism? Is PCP-addled dipshit code for black?
Under what circumstances are these videos even examined? After a death, I suppose, but what about the many(?) cases where police are abusive but no one dies? Are all these videos available to the public?
ETA to call attention to this post:
Right. Let’s pretend that there aren’t any white supremacist police officers in America. And let’s pretend that there aren’t any living black people who grew up being brutalized by white supremacist police officers, or whose parents were.
I see the Great He Was On PCP Line of Argument continues…
Look, police training and protocols should contemplate, when faced with a situation of someone all f***ed up in the street, or someone who’s not being cooperative in general, that the effort be made and the risk taken to have a less-lethal takedown rather than corner yourself into a deadly force decision point while wishing for submission that never comes? If you are repeatedly in situations where you are basically going “Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Oh shit, he’s reaching, FIRE!!” I say maybe, perhaps, you should consider that if you get past that fifth “stop” while the suspect’s still not in a position to draw a weapon but is obviously not going to comply, it’s time for taser, pepper spray, baton, something other than live ammo.
No. And I don’t deny for a moment that there are horrible police abuses. The Walter Scott case CLEARLY demonstrates that cops do in fact drop guns on dead victims to get away with murder. The case if the guy who was selling single cigarettes getting killed with a choke hold clearly demonstrates that some cops think they’re fucking judge dredd. And the time that cop tackled the 12 year old in a bikini and pulled a gun on other kids, shows a very “respek mah authoriteh” attitude among some cops. The lack of immediate medical attention that many of these shooting victims get seems to indicate that some cops have a callous indifference towards the life of anyone they shoot. These things are an embarrassment to the entire country.
But, these riots (and attendant looting) are inexcusable and BLM frequently protests shootings that are justified.
I agree. The recent Harvard study shows that there is a racial disparity in how police officers treat blacks versus whites (like we really needed a study to tell us that) I mean, can you IMAGINE a cop throwing around a young teenage white girl like that for mouthing off?
But surprisingly the study indicates that there is not a significant disparity in when police officers shoot or kill blacks versus whites (in fact the data seems to point slightly in the other direction).
Like I said, they should have tasered him much earlier but some people seem to think that even THIS is too much.
The riots are bad but those are instigated by a small minority of BLM protesters. Most protesters, and even most protests, are non-violent.
…so they all should get a pass now, because there were a few victims in the past?
Math is not data. Math is what you do with data, if you have it. Either you don’t have it, or are very coy about revealing it.
Course, last I’d heard, we don’t have that data. We know how many eggs were produced in Wisconsin, we know the county by county breakdown. But we don’t have data on shooting, justified and otherwise, because nobody keeps that info, officially.
And your offer of trading equivalences? One for me, one for you? Seriously? If justified deaths outnumber unjustified, you win? I’m a generous man, I’m willing to accept that you hit the button before you gave it adequate thought. Be better if you said so, if that matters to you.
This should be taken into account, and too often it is not. If police officers want to kill fewer black people they should consider a history that demonstrates the fear of police is entirely rational.