I question how much animosity is earned by a cop getting kicked in the nuts, spit on, and then punches the suspect while making an arrest. At least among those who don’t expect cops to be superhuman.
Subduing a suspect, cuffing her, and then beating her up is one thing. Punching the suspect in the course of subduing and cuffing her is something else.
Don’t you people have any sense of proportion at all?
Apparently not.
Regards,
Shodan
Yes.
mc
I don’t disagree. Humans are still humans. Seems like it would be very difficult to be exact during a violent struggle. At least we can agree that there are rules in place once the suspect is in custody.
It’s not that we expect cops to be superhuman, it’s that we expect them to follow the law. They expect the people that they encounter to be super human. To instantly obey every and all orders, even when conflicting. To not flail a bit while they are being assaulted. To allow a stranger to place hands on you because he has decided that he wants to subdue you without flinching.
If suspects act in any of these human ways, they are beaten, sometimes killed, and charged for their inconvenience. Yet, asking cops, who are paid and trained for this sort of interaction, to be professional, is asking them to act in a way that you seem to think impossible.
Choosing to subdue a suspect because they didn’t have enough respect for your authority to fail a breathalyzer test is something else entirely. And in the course of subduing a suspect because you want to make sure that she, and everyone else, understands the consequences of disrespecting their authority, some extra punches to the face really help to get that message across.
Can you tell me what danger she was posing to the public that the officer had no choice but to violently subdue her? If not, are you agreeing that the officer made the deliberate choice to violently subdue her? What reason do you feel makes violently subduing someone who is not posing any danger to anyone justified? Well, I shouldn’t ask that of you, your answer is that the cop felt like beating someone that day, and that’s just one of the perks of the job.
Yes, along with a sense of justice, fairness, and equality, all things that are foreign to you.
So, you are one of the people that choose to not only allow, but to celebrate police violence and the divisniess that the police, choosing to continue to escalate the cycle of violence are fostering.
Since you don’t give a shit about the civilians who suffer at the hands of the police, and only care about the police, remember, next time you see cops shot in some sort of ambush, it is actions like these that lead to that sort of radicalization towards violence, and that you encouraged that culture, so you share some of the blame. You see dead cops, you recognize that your actions contributed to that happening. Not that you would feel any guilt, you have to have the capacity for self reflection for that. You would instead, push for increasing the escalation in violence, that will leave more of both civilians and police injured and killed. I can only hope that your motive in encouraging violence is ignorance of the impact of your actions, and the actions of the very many like yourself.
I just watched the police bodycam video showing the lead-up to the arrest. Wow, the whole situation was handled poorly by everyone involved - both cops and the woman. She showed very poor judgement in walking away when the cops were telling her not to, and telling them they weren’t allowed to approach her, touch her or arrest her. So, two strikes against her… so far.
But, holy cow. The cops handled the entire situation badly. She was calling her aunt, who they didn’t give time to show up. The girl had not been drinking, as evidenced by the breathalyzer. I never saw where she kicked anyone in the nuts, but she did spit on or at one of the cops… but not until after she was tackled and punched in the head. The punches were clearly unwarranted and excessive. It was obvious that both cops lost their cool with her, which they shouldn’t have done based on what was happening.
So, my conclusion is that even though the woman didn’t act perfectly, the cops went way overboard, and this is indeed a controversial encounter that could have been avoided with more professional police work.
I suspect that the “kick in the nuts” happened just before the cop punched her. The officer says “alright, that’s it” just before he starts wailing on her. So I assume that it is something she did that instigated this. Its not clear to me that this was a deliberate action on her part. Given that she was stuggling after being pinned on the ground I think it probable she was just kicking her legs trying to get loose and his nuts got in the way. In any case he didn’t make any sort of grunt in pain so it probably wasn’t a big hit. His statement before he starts in on her doesn’t suggest a reaction out of reflex, but instead a deliberate act of retribution.
As far as the spitting goes, it sounded to me like she was just spitting out a mouth full of sand, after having had her face ground into it by the officers. And in any case happened after she had been punched. So it can’t be the cause of the beat down.
There is probably no policy against punching a person after they spit the sand out of their mouth that got there by their face being dragged in the sand, so it’s okay.
Most of your post is aggressively stupid, wrong, and probably the result of mental defect or disease, but I will address part of it.
The reason is probably beyond your intellectual grasp, as would be any concept more advanced than finger-painting with your own feces, but here it is anyway.
She was resisting the lawful order of a police officer.
Most people, apart from you and, apparently, this teenage bitch-child, grow out of the “you aren’t the boss of me” stage in early childhood. Mature adults - that is, people who aren’t like you and have advanced beyond the toddler phase - recognize that we live in a society, and that other people also live in that society, and that the other people have decided that certain forms of actions are acceptable and others are not. We have codified those decisions into the form of “laws”. Those “laws” are binding on everybody - not just those who want to be bound by them, but everyone who lives in the society.
Unfortunately, there are people like this spoiled tantrum princess and you, who think that they get to decide if they get to live in the society and enjoy its benefits, but can decide on a case-by-case basis if they will obey the rules. (Obviously the case where the rules will apply is when it comes to other people, and not when it comes to the princesses.) Society won’t work if that happens - if people can get away with breaking or ignoring the rules by pitching a fit, things won’t go smoothly.
So we have appointed people to enforce the rules. We call those people “police”. These “police” go around looking for people who break the rules, and try to stop them. Of course the “police” do other things, but given your obvious mental limitations, I will try to dumb it down to your level.
Now one of those rules is that underage people may not possess alcohol. Obviously this is not one of the major rules. It isn’t like murder, or robbery, or crossing a rhesus monkey with a flatulent hyena and letting him post on the SDMB, as appears to have happened in your case, but it is a rule nonetheless. So the “police” ordered her to stop doing it.
Here’s a really, really advanced concept - if the police give you a lawful order, then in that situation he really is the boss of you. You do have to do it. You don’t get to say No or walk away or mouth off or spit on him or push him or anything like that. You have to do what he says, because he is speaking and acting as the representative of all the rest of us, who don’t give two toots on a tin trumpet about how fucking special you are.
So if you say No or walk away or mouth off or spit on him, he is authorized to arrest you. If you resist, he is authorized to use reasonable force to make you submit to the arrest.
And that is OK with the rest of us. That’s the point that you need to try to fit into the five hundred cubic centimeters of raw sewage atop your brain stem, if possible. Normal rational grown-ups are not like you. We understand the need for public order. And when some dim bulb bimbo complains that she got a smack in the sneezer when she refused a police order and spit on him and kicked him in the nuts, we don’t particularly care.
Now I realize that you don’t really understand the situation at all, and this is all recreational fapping and moral outrage because a story on the Internet triggered four of your available ten neurons, but look on this as an opportunity - you might be able to advance your understanding beyond that of a three-year-old enraged because grown-ups expect him to use the potty like a big boy.
You might not, too, but surprise us.
Regards,
Shodan
And some, um, people enjoy seeing bitchy women get what’s coming to them.
How many guys here have ever punched a young woman in the face (show of hands)?
How many guys here would punch a young woman in the face if she failed to follow your order (again, show of hands)?
How many guys here would be fine punching a young woman in the face while another guy helped hold her down (show of hands)?
Informal poll.
While we’re at it, who here thinks less of police in general after this incident?
Well, you’ll be pleased to note that she was NOT underage drinking as she had passed a breathalyzer and further, she denied that the alcohol was hers. So what exactly was the basis of the violent arrest other than disrespecting the officers authoritah?
The offense was being in possession of alcohol.
And “the booze in my hand isn’t mine” ranks up there with “those aren’t my drugs in my pocket” as a legal defense. See also the sovereign citizen defense of “I’m not driving, I’m travelling”, especially when delivered from behind the wheel of a car.
But you are correct - she was arrested for refusing a police officer’s legal command/arrest. If you want to call that disrespecting authoritah, feel free. The authoritah is legitimate.
Regards,
Shodan
She wasn’t holding the alcohol. She said it was her aunt’s.
Dude, lighten up. Take a breath. She’s at the beach on a holiday weekend. Her aunt has some booze (people do that on the beach). The girl hasn’t had a sip, she’s just sitting nearby. Cause that’s what peeps do.
Gimme a little here. I’ll agree she shouldn’t have resisted/spit/cursed/whatever. But come on, you gotta see that the escalation by the police was unnecessary and only further darkens their rep.
Cop is an asshat, Shodan rushes to his defense. It’s a tale as old as this thread.
Well, I know he is generally more supportive of the police than I am. I’ve got one buddy who is a cop, but otherwise try to avoid interacting with them (and he suggests that). But he isn’t a fool, and I hope if he sits back and ruminates on the situation maybe he’ll bend a bit. Maybe if he asks himself, what if that girl was my niece, exercising bad judgement maybe, but hey, does she deserve to be pinned to the ground and punched in the face?
If what you want is a police state, where citizens only have the rights that the police allow them to have, then your screed that I just snipped out of there is very appropriate. Very, “You Must Obey”.
Yeah, you are right, a cop can walk up to you, tell you to strip naked and jump up and down on one foot, and if you don’t, you’re the one who is in the wrong. If you refuse, the cop can arrest you. If you are surprised by the cop arresting you because you refused to strip naked and jump up and down on one foot, and do not instantly comply, then they can cause as much harm to you as they care to, and charge you with resisting arrest for their efforts. You may enjoy living in such a world, most of us do not.
I get that you are in love with the police, and that they can do no wrong, not ever, but people do have rights. And an officer barking conflicting commands at a random person, after already determining that that person was not doing what they suspected them of doing, is not something that people should have to put up with in a non-authoritarian society.
This was, pure and simple, a cop who was looking to take his frustrations out on someone, and that someone managed to cross his path, and he knew that he could justify beating a girl, and that people like you would call him a hero for doing so.
I think it’s reasonable to criticize police when they have the opportunity to try deescalation, especially with someone who poses no threat to them or others, and they choose to escalate.
Exactly right.
Honest question: How much training do the police get in deescalation vs. what they get in how to subdue a perp? Do police know that it is very stressful for most people to interact with a cop during a stop and interrogation situation like this when someone really thinks they’ve done nothing wrong? Or perhaps have done something a little wrong, but is not harming anyone else?
Why didn’t the cops calmly tell the girl to “please settle down and stop yelling. Listen to me, please. We have the right to issue you a summons for underage possession of alcohol. You have the right to contest the charge at a later date.” That should have been the worst that happened. What should have happened is the cops waited until she got her aunt on the phone, the aunt showed up, or if no contact with the aunt happened, pour the beer out.
What part of his recent screed implies any capability for self-reflection? He’s arguing that a cop, upon seeing alcohol in the vicinity of a minor, first administers a breathalyzer, then decides to arrest said person anyway, is completely within his rights. That’s not a normal thought process, that’s police officer union logic.