Man, that PD is going to be hit with a massive wrongful death lawsuit. If Bates wants to redeem himself, he’ll cooperate with the family and tell the truth about training he received or didn’t receive.
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Apparently that was a real gun with real bullets so there was a real danger.
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The guy was pointing the weapon at himself, but had committed a number of violent felonies immediately preceding the video.
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The perp survived. Considering he had been threatening himself, the cop’s action, even though extreme, might actually have saved the perp’s life.
Win for the cops, IMO.
Way up thread I stated something to the effect that I had been genuinely shocked to see so many videos of cops behaving badly, and that in my limited dealings with police had always observed nothing but correct and professional behavior on the part of police.
I think most, if not all, of the people posting in this thread would agree that the majority of cops do not engage in the types of bad behavior exhibited. But that is not to say the exceptions should not be pointed out.
I agree, I’m not sure if ramming at full speed like that was the right call, but he needed to be stopped.
As for “pointing out” the bad apples, the issue si that that’s all we’re doing. Pointing at them. The government will be damned if it actually does anything about them though.
And also, it seems that perhaps there are a lot more rotten apples in that cart that anyone suspected.
And of course, it’s a new day! So we’ve got yet another incident of cops beating an African American mercilessly, this time, for the heinous crime of not coming to a full stop at a stop sign. They should of just executed him on the spot, IMHO:
What, no one said “Fuck your breath” to the guy? Cops are slipping.
The lead cop in this ordeal? Fired by the Detroit PD for planting evidence back in 2003. WHY IS HE STILL A COP?? Oh, right, 'cause we’re just pointing out the bad apples and doing jack shit about it.
Certainly more than I ever expected. I suppose because I always held cops to a high standard.
The bad exposure cops have experienced in recent years seems to be leading to the requirement of body cams on cops. That cannot be a bad thing. It’s hardly a panacea, but certainly a step in the right direction.
If this report is true, it is a scandal of truly staggering proportions. Prior to this coming out what we had here was an idiot who caused another man’s death. Now what we have is a systematic fraud, involving a number of conspirators, that caused a man’s death.
Turns out he was a big financial supporter of the department, so that puts us right back into the normal realm of politics.
Yeah, he was basically their sugar-daddy.
Not quite the police and not in America but controversy in Australia as a proposed amendment to a bill which would allow guards at Immigration Detention Centres to use “reasonable force against any person” is predicted to result in guards being allowed to “beat asylum seekers to death."
An opponent to the proposed amendment cites the recent American case “Using the example of Walter Scott, a black man who was fatally shot in the back by a white police officer, Mr Charles warned against bringing the “reasonable belief” test to Australia.”
TCMF-2L
Seeing people have their red pill moment here and elsewhere is satisfying in a sorta gloomy way, though it’s hard to fight the what took so long reaction.
Black people: Yo, the police are fucked up.
White people: Whatever, go back to making more music we can steal.
<24 years after Rodney King>
White people: Dang y’all, did you know the police are kinda fucked up?
Yeah, I’m finding this kinda funny. Black people have known for decades that the police will kill them without a second thought and get off completely.
In more ways than one.
I’d ask you for a cite on police officers deriving sexual pleasure from killing black people, but clearly you’ve decided what you want to believe and no amount of facts will dissuade you, so what would be the point?
So the guy pretty much bought a license to carry a gun and use it against people. Terrific. We’re a few steps away from actually issuing licenses to hunt black people, and the usual suspects will say it’s “common sense” for black people to stay inside.
You misinterpret Czarcasm’s post. He wasn’t claiming that cops masturbate to the material. He was saying that they express enjoyment after the beatdowns.
Radio transcripts following the Rodney King beating substantiate: [INDENT]
12:31 a.m. From Powell to the foot patrol officers: “…Sounds almost exciting as our last call…It was right out of Gorillas in the Mist.”
12:32 a.m. From the foot patrol officers to Powell and Wind: “…HaHaHaHa…let me guess who be the parties.”
…
1:13 a.m. From Powell and Wind to the foot patrol: “I haven’t beaten anyone this bad in a long time.”
1:15 a.m. From the foot patrol to Powell and Winds: “Oh not again…Why for you do that…I thought you agreed to chill out for awhile…What did he do?”
1:16 a.m. From Powell and Wind to the foot patrol: “I think he was dusted…many broken bones later…After the pursuit…”
1:17 a.m. From the foot patrol to Powell and Wind: “What pursuit?” [/INDENT] Much levity. The above was interspersed with discussion about upcoming bike rides.
http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/lapd/Kingtransmissions.html
Oh and greetings TCMF-2L, and welcome to the Straight Dope Message Board. You may have gathered that the punters here make up a pretty tough crowd. Over time you will learn to anticipate some of their ravings and pre-empt them. Sometimes: most get dinged now and then.
I’ll take your pitted point further. Following the fall of the Berlin Wall, the new Czechoslovakian government put tight curbs on the police force, who were basically made up of authoritarians. Crime increased. So many were hired back, notwithstanding continued appalling practices. But what are you going to do? Reform takes time and even crooked cops are better than none at all. The alternative is vigilantism, mall cops and the mob.
Those were top notch posts 2 pages back about British police scandals. Have there been a spate of cell phone vids showing British police brutality? If not, why not? Do the police there have dashboard cams? I know that London is packed with crime cams, which apparently have done precious little though they are wildly popular.
Reforms and a new police chief in LA followed the Rodney King beating. In New York City I was informed, cops were trained to physically hold their partners back if things got too out of hand. So… isolated incident!!
More deeply, media reports had cops’ word against that of an accused criminal and their families. Who are you going to believe? I’ve known a number of assholes with chips on their shoulders who seem to find themselves in a lot of physical confrontations. For an example see the Gaver family video. If such folk find themselves getting a beatdown, I’m not exactly surprised but nor do I give their views much credence.
If I had known folks of solid character who had gotten in trouble with the cops, I might have felt differently. It was known among my friends that expressing a lot of deference to an officer of the law was a very good idea. It was grasped by myself that not all could show such deference. So to some extent I may have overgeneralized, although mostly I didn’t think about the issue to be frank.
I had also read a report in the 1990s by an African American cop that said it was possible to handle police encounters, but hell no he didn’t drive on the New Jersey Turnpike. As a black guy, that’s just asking for trouble.
Me: “Er… what?”
Measure for Measure. I think all the issues in encounters between US police and the US public have direct analogs in encounters between the UK police and the UK public.
I’ve previously highlighted Duggan (man of dubious character killed by armed police and widespread rioting breaks out) the **SPG **(specialist anti-riot squad disbanded because it was too violent - shades of the US Rampart scandal) and there have been scandals based on video footage. I can provide details of the Ian Tomlinson case of 2009 (innocent man gets attacked by police during the G-20 riots and dies) if required.
Actually, while searching the Tomlinson case I was reminded of a previous, very controversial incident. The day after some attempted terrorist bombings in London in 2005, Brazilian Charles de Menezes, an innocent man, was wrongly assumed to be one of the terrorists, wrongly assumed to have a bomb around his waist so the police put 7 dum-dum bullets in his head.
Back to my point. This is a purely personal opinion and I think it is an opinion that is already becoming outdated. However I perceive a basic difference in national character at play here. I think in the US much is made of Constitutional Rights and I think the US are more inclined to treat the police as potentially an obstacle to the individual exercising those rights. In the UK I think there is greater acceptance there is a ‘correct’ way to behave in society and the police are simply there to enforce that.
I am not saying all US citizens hate the police or dismissing US national pride. I am not saying all UK citizens like the police either. I’m suggesting the stereotypical UK attitudes of exaggerated modesty, stoicism (the famous UK acceptance of queuing), politeness (apologising when someone bumps into them) and a residual compliance to the old class structure (doing what you are told because the ‘toffs’ have ordered it) leads to a grudging acceptance of the police. Even after they have been demonstrated as in the wrong.
A lot of UK people think a lot is wrong with the UK police. But the most provocative UK incidents are far less common than they are in the US so the issue flares up and then dies back down. It is difficult to attain and sustain critical mass.
Then you get a shocking incident like the lurid Dale Cregan case of 2012. Cregan is a seriously violent gangster. The police hunting him for some murders, he decided to go down in style. He made a hoax 999 (911 in the US) call luring the police to him. When two (random and unsuspecting) police officers arrived he shot them, threw hand grenades (unusual in UK crime) at them and killed them. The officers were unarmed but they were also both female and one was a real rookie only 23 years old. It was a senseless crime, afterwards Cregan went to a police station and handed himself in. However that week the country, in general, was all supportive of the police.
TCMF-2L
Here we have a legitimate, clear-cut case of incompetence and bribery leading to an unnecessary casualty. Is that not enough for you without tossing in all this hyperbole about “buying licenses to hunt black people”?
It’s hard to take your cause seriously when the truth is on your side and it still isn’t enough.
Your criticisms are duly noted, and you may shut up now.
I lived in Britain for a year when Thatcher’s government was pushing the police bill. “Left of liberal” exists on both sides of the pond but it is larger by almost an order of magnitude in Britain. (Carter’s America was more conservative than Thatcher’s UK after all.) So I saw a fair amount of sloganeering: “No police bill! No police state!” Your characterization sounds right to me: I just thought I’d add another factor to the mix.
I’m also wondering whether Britain’s traditions of white papers and propriety might place their own sorts of limitations on police excesses. Relative to say France or Italy. The US also has a parallel though different tradition of public investigation and suspicion of power. Not sure where I’m going with this.