Convince me not to be racist

Great Debates
1

I am a white male living in Atlanta, GA. I’m sure that most posters on this message board would classify me as “racist” due to the beliefs I hold in regards to Black people. Below is a snapshot of the city I live in, and why it has caused the beliefs that I hold.

Although the city of Atlanta is made up of only 54% Blacks - Black people account for:

Murder: 100%
Forcible Rape: 100%
Robbery: 95%
Aggravated Assault: 92%
Burglary: 89%
Larceny: 87%
Motor Vehicle Theft: 100%
Other Assaults: 90%

These numbers are from the Atlanta Police Department’s Uniform Crime Report* for May 2014. These % are for just one month, but hold basically true for any month you look at.

  • I do realize these numbers reflect arrests only, not convictions, but I have no other details to go by

Based on the numbers above, I can make assumptions regarding Black people that are 100% true:

  • For any violent crime committed in Atlanta, it was most likely committed by a Black person
  • A black person in Atlanta is more likely to commit a crime than a non-black person
  • Black people commit a disproportionate amount of crime compared to their population
    etc.

Without any reason to believe that Black criminal behavior in Atlanta is just an anomaly or an exception, I extend those assumptions to all Black people throughout the country. Especially given that national trends show very similar patterns. Yet all those assumptions are considered “racist” by most liberals on this board. Why are assumptions based on facts just hand-waved away by so many?

The other question is WHY is there such a disproportionate amount of crime among the black community? One common excuse I hear from the left is because the system is racist and geared against them, etc.

Well, let’s look at Atlanta:

APD Chief of Police: Black
Atlanta Mayor: Black
Fulton County District Attorney: Black
Fulton County Superior Court Chief Judge: Black

I have trouble seeing how all these Blacks are the ones oppressing the Black community and are the cause for their mistreatment in the legal system.

The other excuse I always hear is because of poverty. In 2009, the median income for a household in the city was $47,464 and the median income for a family was $59,711. (2009 US Median income for household was $49,777)

I know that this is really a two-part debate, but I’m most interested in why, given the statistics of crime in Atlanta, I should treat Black people equally, with as much trust and respect, as a non-Black person?

2

You pretty much answered your own question here. Through most of American history, most Americans, American society at large, and federal, state, and local governments, believed and acted as though black people were less worthy of trust, respect, and equal treatment. For most of American history this was taken to the level of egregious brutality, exploitation, and oppression.

When an individual black person is treated by most as less worthy of trust, respect, and equal treatment by society and most individuals in society, he/she will be less likely to succeed academically and financially. It won’t be impossible, but there will be obstacles present that will make it more difficult, and many will be unable to overcome such obstacles. Similarly, he/she will be more likely to engage in criminal behavior – he/she will have fewer legitimate options for success, and years of brutal treatment can take a toll on the psyche that can make one more likely to do bad things.

Add this up to hundreds of millions of individuals, and centuries of such behavior, and even after much progress has been made, there are still remnants and legacies left – such that even many black people might see other black people as less worthy of trust, respect, and equal treatment.

So by treating black people as less worthy of trust, respect, and equal treatment, you are playing a role in keeping conditions in society such that it is more difficult for individual black people to succeed, and that it is more likely that an individual black people might engage in crime.

3

a) A majority of non-white people are not criminals.

b) On an individual basis, you cannot reliably determine whether any given non-white person is a criminal simply by noting their skin color.

c) What do you think you personally gain by not treating random non-whites with respect?

Other than that, it’s not my job to convince you out of your prejudices. You clearly are comfortable with expressing bigoted views that you think can be accounted for solely on one physical characteristic (skin color). I’ll leave you to it.

4

Does the OP find this hypothetical statement objectionable? If so, why?

I am a female living in Atlanta, GA. I’m sure that most posters on this message board would classify me as “misandrist” due to the beliefs I hold in regards to Male people. Below is a snapshot of the city I live in, and why it has caused the beliefs that I hold.

Although the city of Atlanta is made up of only 54% Males - Male people account for:

Murder: 100%
Forcible Rape: 100%
Robbery: 95%
Aggravated Assault: 92%
Burglary: 89%
Larceny: 87%
Motor Vehicle Theft: 100%
Other Assaults: 90%

These numbers are from the Atlanta Police Department’s Uniform Crime Report* for May 2014. These % are for just one month, but hold basically true for any month you look at.

  • I do realize these numbers reflect arrests only, not convictions, but I have no other details to go by

Based on the numbers above, I can make assumptions regarding Male people that are 100% true:

  • For any violent crime committed in Atlanta, it was most likely committed by a Male person
  • A male person in Atlanta is more likely to commit a crime than a non-male person
  • Male people commit a disproportionate amount of crime compared to their population
    etc.

Without any reason to believe that Male criminal behavior in Atlanta is just an anomaly or an exception, I extend those assumptions to all Male people throughout the country. Especially given that national trends show very similar patterns. Yet all those assumptions are considered “racist” by most liberals on this board. Why are assumptions based on facts just hand-waved away by so many?

The other question is WHY is there such a disproportionate amount of crime among the male community? One common excuse I hear from the left is because the system is racist and geared against them, etc.

Well, let’s look at Atlanta:

APD Chief of Police: Male
Atlanta Mayor: Male
Fulton County District Attorney: Male
Fulton County Superior Court Chief Judge: Male

I have trouble seeing how all these Males are the ones oppressing the Male community and are the cause for their mistreatment in the legal system.

The other excuse I always hear is because of poverty. In 2009, the median income for a household in the city was $47,464 and the median income for a family was $59,711. (2009 US Median income for household was $49,777)

I know that this is really a two-part debate, but I’m most interested in why, given the statistics of crime in Atlanta, I should treat Male people equally, with as much trust and respect, as a non-Male person?

5

If those stats are accurate, then the white folks in Atlanta must be awfully nice compared to anywhere else!

The best argument I’ve seen against racism is to observe who the racists are, how they speak, how they think, and how they live.

6

Did you post this because you truly are open to change or is the OP more of a rhetorical question?

7

We know that races are social constructs, not biological ones. Being “black” in America is not a matter of genes – it’s a matter of society and culture.

So knowing this, let’s make certain assumptions. Let’s assume that people come into this world and face difficulties in life in 3 different categories – people with easy life challenges, people with moderately difficult life challenges, and people with very difficult life challenges.

These challenges can be likened to a “difficulty setting” on a video game.
They would include like the financial situation you’re born into, how you’re treated by society based on race/gender/religion/sexual orientation/etc., random events like crime and illness that affect your family, how you are treated by your family, etc.

The vast majority of people born in the “easy” setting go on to have reasonably successful lives – they don’t go bankrupt, they don’t go to jail, they have families, they usually live to be pretty old. A very small portion of them commit crimes, and those that commit crimes are much more likely to be able to get away with them. For the people born in the “moderate” setting, most of them still do pretty well, but a larger percentage of them have failures – going bankrupt, committing crimes, going to jail, having strings of failed relationships, etc. And for the people born in the “very difficult” setting, a very large portion of them have failure. Many more of them commit crimes. And much fewer of them that commit crimes are able to defend themselves – further, some that don’t commit crimes are more likely to be falsely accused, and less likely to be able to successfully defend themselves.

So with these assumptions about difficulty setting, we just see that black people are more likely to be in a “higher difficulty setting” than white people. Sure, there are black people that are born into the “easy” setting, and white people born into the “very difficult” setting, but black people are more likely to be in the higher settings and white people in the lower settings.

And this explains why outcomes are different.

8

Well, considering that there was a grand total of ONE arrest for murder during the month in question, it is perhaps unsurprising that several races are completely unrepresented among murderers.

9

You know., if you go back far enough you’ll find a common ancestor for you and those “black people”, and it’s not Adam and Eve. So, in a very real sense, you’re related to them as are the rest of us.

Hope that helps a bit.

10

You shouldn’t. We should all have a higher level of apprehension when dealing with males. Women certainly do.

11

You realize that the OP is never going to change his mind, so arguing with him is pointless. He’ll just sit back and laugh at all the “stoopid libruls” who don’t know that “blacks are all criminals.” Just let this abortion of a thread die and maybe the OP will go back where he came from.

12

Proving once again that everyone needs to take a class in statistics before being released on the world as an adult.

13

No, I don’t find that hypothetical objectionable at all. I think that the historical facts have proved that males are more likely than women to commit violent offenses. Being a male doesn’t make that any more offensive.

14

If you believe I have cherry-picked data to fit my narrative, feel free to go back and compile the numbers. I don’t think you’ll find the ‘A-ha! gotcha!’ you’re looking for.

15

If there was only one arrest for murder, then this data is not useful or representative.

16

That’s pretty mature. So in other words, you got nothing…

I’m more than willing to change my mind if someone can give me a good reason to ignore the reality I’ve described.

17

I guess you’re just ignoring my post #2?

18

Well, I went back 6 months since you don’t like that data.

12/13 - 5/14
35 arrests for murder: 100% Black.

I’ll keep going if you’d like.

19

No, I’m just processing it still. I appreciate you taking the time to answer it.

At first glance though, it seems like a circular argument. Blacks commit crime because people don’t trust them because they commit crime because etc. If so, there are two ways to break the cycle:

A) Trust blacks despite them committing crimes and they’ll eventually stop

OR

B) Blacks stop committing crimes and people will eventually start to trust them.

But you’re saying society has to do A, because for whatever reason Blacks can’t do B?

20

You’re still just talking about a handful of murders. I didn’t have to go back much further to find white people arrested for murder too, not that this tells us anything anyway.