Cop shoot, kills teen after he skips out on check at IHOP

The BBQ Pit
321

Speaking of that: I’m certainly glad the driver only has one death on his hands, instead of two, the cop and his friend.

Aaron Brown walked out on a check without paying. He didn’t deserve to die for that. Aaron Brown was in a vehicle which squealed its tires and drove toward a police officer with a gun at over 25 miles per hour in a small, packed parking lot. He didn’t deserve to die for that, but the officer was justified in protecting himself. It’s on the driver’s hands. If his parents want to go after someone, they should go after the driver.

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Good point. Will the driver be charged in connection with that death?

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On the other hand, spraying bullets at the windows of a moving vehicle being purposely driven at you is a pretty smart thing to do IF IT WILL SAVE YOUR LIFE.

AND THE LIVES OF OTHERS WHO HAPPEN TO BE IN THE PARKING LOT!

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Uh…okay? I was responding to Weirddave supporting Martin Hyde’s statement that society is better off with Aaron Brown dead. I have no idea why you’re bringing up the rest of that stuff, because I certainly haven’t. Except to say '‘the officer acted appropriately it now seems, but this is still a tragedy’. Martin has, because he is a troll, said that it isn’t a tragedy because Aaron Brown was a pancake thief. Dave apparently jumped in to defend him without even knowing the facts of the case, saying that Aaron Brown got was he deserved for driving the SUV at the cop, when Brown wasn’t even the driver, which is why this is a tragedy and not just a case of cause and effect. Clear now?

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No, it didn’t have much to do with it, I know. Your post just reminded me that the driver IS still around and has to live with his actions that night. Thus my post. Wasn’t really a direct response, more of a stream-of-consciousness thing.

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Garfield, I’m sorry. “My nerves jump like a boiling pan, like a skillet full of oil spits rattling on the burner”. I’m too often on a hair trigger around here. Reading again it’s pretty clear you weren’t talking to me.

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I said nothing about society being better off with Aaron Brown dead. I am also quite familiar with the details of the case, thank you very much, and you’ll note that I suggested that I would deserve to be shot if I had attempted to run down a cop. You might want to read for context before you pop off at me next time. I said, and I quote myself, “the line you quoted from him is dead spot on”, and it is. Aaron Brown is dead today because he chose to dine and dash, and then attempted to elude the police officer attempting to apprehend him along with someone else who attempted to kill said police officer with his car. It’s too bad Aaron got hit instead of the driver, but you know what? The driver of the getaway car is just as guilty of murder as his companions who gunned down a teller while robbing a bank. The same principle holds true here.

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Garfiel226 posted: “Blue Wall of Silence” != releasing a 54-page report to the public.

I don’t know about the “Blue wall of silence”, but just because a report is released to the public doesn’t it make it the factual account of what took place.

I’ve had the misfortune of being arrested for DWI and the probable cause section in the charging document I was given reflected reality very poorly.

I was pulled over for flicking my cigarettes ashes out the window and gesturing while talking to a drunken friend I was driving home at 3am—the cop’s first words were why “was I motioning him to pass me”?

After he saw the cigarette, I was told I had crossed the double yellow line and the white shoulder twice, and that’s why he pulled me over.

It all went down hill from there, I ranted about this year ago in this thread about refusing a breathalyzer for details: http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=322147

To cut to the chase, even after demonstrating in court with photos that this road didn’t have a shoulder or white line that I could have crossed, and the cop saying his flashing lights were not on when I was pulled over, and the prosecutor throwing his hands up in the air instead of giving a closing argument because he had no case—I’ll still got fined for crossing the yellow line, but not guilty of the real charge of DWI.

What BS. But the judge still stuck me with a fine and point. It’s like they had to get me for something to pay the court costs.

He had to have known this cop had made a bad arrest (and probably perjured himself), but I couldn’t prove that I hadn’t crossed the yellow line—so bang.

So, from first hand experience with police versions of an incident, I don’t put much stock in a report exonerating police actions from a prosecutor who is part of what can (sometimes) be an incestuous legal system that may be biased towards the police version.

What “factual statements” were considered and then included in this 54-page report to the public?

I forgot to mention that the fact that my T-shirt wasn’t tucked into my khaki shorts was listed as a probable indicator of my being drunk during my arrest (which didn’t last long in court). That’s grasping at straws, IMHO.

The release of this report may not explain what happened

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I would guess that if the witnesses quoted weren’t quoted accurately, we’ll be hearing about that shortly. There are some of the factual statements right there. And unless you’re suggesting that the PD faked the photographs included in the report, there are more facts. If you’d like to look up the sources the investigator cited to make sure he used them correctly, feel free…I bet they’re accurate as well.

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iamamoocher, I read your previous post about your arrest and that is some seriously fucked up shit. I don’t trust cops at all because of stories like yours.

Did you ever think about filing a civil suit against the cop for false arrest?

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I haven’t checked all this out, I admit.

I guess the point I was trying to illustrate in my case was facts that bolstered my case never made it into the police arrest report—like the roadside tests I did pass, they were never documented. They never happened in the official police version. And at trial, when questioned about the tests I did pass, the arresting officer “couldn’t remember”—that came up a few times.

I’ll I’m saying is consider what the source is and that maybe they only released certain facts and they spun it to their advantage. I doubt they would fake something, that could be disprovable, but I think it’s possible that anything that makes this shooting look bad won’t be highlighted or documented in the first place.

I don’t know what happened in this case, but I believe skepticism is healthy. And I also admit that I need to check out the links before I talk anymore to get more of an idea of what’s been reported (as opposed to actual facts) before weighing in again–if only more posters did this.

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Hey, good. I’m glad you’re back. Care to address your previous statements?

(bolding mine)
Really? Here’s your chance.

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Did you read the part where he admitted to the cop that he’d been drinking and driving? Non-alcoholic beer isn’t non-alcoholic. It has alcohol in it.

334

When you are talking .5% that IIRC most “non alcoholic beverages” are, you would have to drink about 15 of them to get anywhere. Trying to leverage something like this is REALLY reaching.

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So coke’s got alcohol in it now? Quit pulling stuff out of yer tush and address the comments actually made and address them with reality.

All I’m saying is that the dude admitted that he told the cop that he’d been drinking something that is known to have alcohol in it. There’s also a thing called “Wet Reckless Driving.” Do a search on it.

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Okay, so you DO think it’s not a tragedy because Aaron Brown was a pancake thief. (Not a bank robber, not a murderer, not someone who can be held responsible for the driver, because he had no way of knowing ahead of time that the driver would drive at the cop, unlike a bank robbing accomplice who knows his partner is armed). Whatever fancy bullshit you want to spin about it, for some reason, only you and Martin Hyde don’t think this was a tragedy. Even people who disagreed over who’s fault the case is were human enough to admit that this is a tragedy.

And you’re lying. You’re outright lying. You did think Brown was the driver, and your lie is completely absurd. " I am also quite familiar with the details of the case, thank you very much, and you’ll note that I suggested that I would deserve to be shot if I had attempted to run down a cop." Okay, so why did you say that? How is it remotely relevent?

Forget it, everyone reading this knows you’re lying too. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a more blatant and obvious lie in my history on this board. If anybody besides Weirddave can explain to me how he wasn’t lying, and it made perfect sense for him to refer to a comment by Martin about Brown, and then suddenly start talking in unrelated hypotheticals that just happen to be almost identical to the details of the case in the very next sentence, please do. Otherwise, I’m done poking the trolls with sticks, I promise.

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You’re a fucking moron Ensign. Please show me where I said it’s not a tragedy. Go on, quote me. I’ll wait.

Yea, I thought not, ya fucking liar. Stuff it up your bunghole, fucktard.

As to your second point, it’s called an “analogy”. Analogy’s are never exact, and in my experience it’s idiots like you who’ve leaped out on to the end of a limb without looking who start to nitpick insignifigant differences when the limb breaks off behind them. You even had the gall to tell me what I do and do not know. Well, you’re wrong. Would you feel better if I said “If I was in a group of people who attempted to run down a police officer during the commission of a crime then I would deserve to be shot”? 'Cuz that’s true too. Your heart is bleeding for Aaron Brown because stealing pancakes is not a crime worth dying for. I agree with you. However, being part of a group that attempts to run down a police officer in a jeep is a crime that will often get you justly shot at, and sometimes when you get shot at, you die. It’s a tragedy, sure, but it could have been avoided easily, and the ones who had the power to prevent it were Aaron Brown and his friends, most specifically the driver.

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Well, if this thread’s taught me one thing it’s that Martin Hyde is a stupid fucker.

The cop was apparently legitimately fearing for his life because the driver was an irresponsible shithead who either tried to run down the cop, tried to scare the cop by driving really close to him, or just freaked out, putting the cop in danger. The result is that a good kid who was apparently (but not proven to be) involved in an IHOP dine-and-dash is dead, and Martin Hyde is happy about that because he was a criminal, and the world is a better place if criminals die. What a stupid fucking rotten asshole.

I’m not sure if I ever would have even recognized your name before this, Martin Hyde, but after this, everything you write is suspect. You are an inhuman sack of shit with nothing to contribute. I’d trade the pancake thief’s life for yours any day.

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Sure. I am not on the fence about this whole thing. It is this part (from the Post article) that especially made me take pause: (bolding mine)

I think the driver was way way out of line and put his friends all at risk. I place a lot of the blame on his extremely irresponsible behavior.

Now I acknowledge that due to the fact that this all occurred very fast in a short period of time, the officer may have sincerely feared for his life.

However, I still don’t think a dine-and-dash warranted the officer to chase them into a parking lot and try to get a moving vehicle to stop. That is just plain dangerous. There should be a policy against giving chase. Several people I know who work retail have told me that there is a policy against giving chase to suspected thieves. The cost of a pancake breakfast is not worth the danger of giving chase to a some unknown person - you have no idea what they’ll resort to to get away.

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Just wanted to say how grateful I am that there is more than myself who’ve noticed this bit…

Bolding and underlining mine. And it’s the last bit that has been so very important, in my humble opinion. Thank you galt.