Yes. It really is. And believe me, those bites hurt. My partner and I had to serve a warrant on a guy once, and as we were walking him out of the house, his 11 year old daughter decided to chow down on my partner’s left arm. It took about 15 stitches at the ER to set him right, and we were debating whether or not he would need rabies shots as well.
I don’t think so, GorillaMan. When cops are dealing with an adult, as much physical force as needed can be used. But how much is too much with a 9 year old girl? From the sound of it, she was in the car to be transported. As one of the cops has to drive, the other would have been in the back seat with the girl. In a confined space like that, the girl would have been more of a danger to everybody as the cop would have less room to try keep her under control. If they would have left her alone in the back seat, she could have broken the window and cut herself, dislocated her shoulder struggling against the cuffs, etc.
From the articles linked, I think they used the best response out of their limited choices. Not that I’m happy to see a 9yo tasered, but I also wouldn’t want to see anybody seriously injured
Peace - DESK
No. The cops have NOT done these things.
Certain individuals, who happened to be cops, have done these things. You’re doing a guilt by association thing here: X broomhandled a suspect, X is a cop, therefore all cops broomhandle suspects.
Do you think the entire US Army abuses detainees in Iraq? Or was that just the actions of a few? Same thing.
That’s not what was said - it was that it is not true that no cops hace done these things.
Good going. Now I’ll be giggling all day long.
I am the proud owner of a 9 year-old girl. If she was going nuts, even with handcuffs, I don’t think I’d want to get too close either. No taser for me, I’d be thinking fire hose.
If the kid was thrashing around, a litle electrically-induced unconsciousness may have been prudent to prevent her from injuring herself. This cop would also have trouble if he brought an incapacitated little monster girl in with a pair of dislocated shoulders.
I just wanna say, Clothahump, thanks for jumping into this hotbed and trying to dispell ignorance. Between you, Qadgop the Mercotan (who has ALREADY posted that tasers pose no health risks to 9 year olds, with CITES), and Master Wang-Ka, I am of the opinion that correct action was taken. I appreciate the education.
And man, do I not envy you people and your jobs.
I was just going to post something like this. What are the viable alternatives?
I have 3 kids, and even the youngest (at 2) can put up a heck of a fight that requires more than 1 person to manage.
The cops could have
- tazered her, which they did,
- administer a sedative, maybe a tranquilizer gun? Is that even legal?
- beat her unconscious
- choke-hold till she passes out
- swamp her (smother her under their weight)
- shoot her
which of these are mosre acceptable? Do any of them make for a good sound byte/ picture for the police? So, naysayers, what would YOU do? Send her to Time Out until she calmed down? You are the man on the scene.
Bear in mind that I am not saying that they might not have used excessive force, but I know nine-year olds well enough to know it was not an easy call to make.
The instant information age is quite interesting. One unique event can be kicked around the world by a bunch of Monday morning quarterbacks who don’t know what the fuck they’re talking about.
It’s possible there were circumstances that warranted zapping the kid, and it’s equally possible the cop gets off on tasering little kids, who the fuck knows. Anything between those possibilities is possible as well.
I’m with the cop, until facts prove otherwise.
“Quaint” is exactly the right word, but it’s in the wrong direction. What Reeder has done is swoon with emotional outrage before hearing any of the facts, which makes me picture him wearing a corset and hoop skirt, ready to pass out if anyone mentions politics at the dinner table.
On preview, Clothahump, great posts.
What **World Eater ** said. Thanks. Clothahump brings facts to the thread.
No, dipshit, he posted that studies have shown that tasers shouldn’t pose a health risk to children. He did not demonstrate that tasers do not pose a health risk to children.
I’m still going to take the word of people who actually know what they’re talking about over your suspicious conjecture. No hard feelings, asshole.
There are a lot of unanswered questions here that I’d want to have answered if I were investigating. Was the little girl in this state of mind generically, or only in response to being scooped up by cops to be taken back to the institution from which she escaped?
How likely is it that the institution is a fucking hellhole from which any creature with consciousness would attempt to escape, and that the prospect of being returned involuntarily to it would elicit berserk behavior from any of its residents fortunate enough to get out?
While I’m aware that 9 year olds don’t have the authority to decide when they will leave institutions, I’d sure as hell interview her to find out why she wanted out, and then poke around to see if she has a valid case (assuming she alleges mistreatment).
And never mind “well if not a taser what would you use to subdue a violently thrashing 9 year old who’s trying to kick out the windows”, I just plain have problems with “let’s force a human being back into the place she escaped from, and if she gets enraged or terrified at the prospect, we’ll subdue her somehow”.
When you’re forced to be in a place you don’t want to be, and prevented from leaving, that’s a cage. I think cages are a piss-poor solution to crime and violence, and should always be suspected of harboring abuses and humiliations whenever there’s a conflict between the institution and a resident trying to get out.
You were going along fine there, Clothahump, dispelling ignorance with information most of us would not otherwise have had. Then you had to go and make a political jab out of it. If there was any obvious slant to the article it was that of outrage at what the reporter thought was evidence of child abuse. That he reacted emotionally and you rationally speaks more to the difference in your relative knowledge of similar events than to any political bias.
You point out that, in all probablility, the cop was doing his job properly. But in real life, a cop just doing his job properly isn’t much of a story. The outrage of adult vs child was the story. That’s a reporter doing his job properly. The reporter wrote the facts that were known. His own viceral response to what he knew (however incomplete that knowledge was) was impossible to keep out of his writing. I don’t believe reporters in general consciously slant stories against cops any more than I believe cops in general just enjoy brutalizing children. This was a first report. As more facts are known it will no doubt change.
In the meantime I am content to wait for more facts.
For what it’s worth, I agree with you. However, it seems that a lot of the outrage in this thread is due to what is perceived as excessive force in the apprehending of an individual. The outrage stems not from any police action (do we agree that the taser is a legitamate means of incapacitating adult detainees?), but rather from the age of the person being apprehended. The same conflict arose in the thread about handcuffing an old lady, if I recall correctly. My point is that there is NO good way to apprehend some people, and second-guessing the police actions based on the age of the detainee is not productive.
The question as to whether she needed to be apprehended in the first place is a separate point, I think, and I do hope that they follow up on conditions in her institution.
when was tasers included in the police’s arsenal? i see a few guesses, but exactly what was(?) the original option available to the officers in just such a situation before tasers?
Before Tasers, police usually were left with Mace, which would often fail to work on the heavily drugged or psychotic, or their batons, which leads to Rodney King-type incidents.
Well, just a couple of points:
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When I was in grade 5 (so, 10) there was a special needs kid in my class - a small one, small for a 10 year old - one day he lost his temper and our teacher was trying to sit on him to calm him down - teacher was 6’1", 250 lbs. The kid threw him off like nothing.
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GorillaMan police restraint techniques don’t necessarily work on everyone, particularly not someone who’s pissed. I don’t feel any sort of pressure point, joint lock, arm twist, etc, etc. I’ve dislocated my collar bone before and didn’t feel it. Someone had to point out that it was in the wrong place (man - were THEY white in the face!)
Anyhow - I think more info is needed before the cops can necessarily be condemed in this situation.
I’ve certainly never heard of Rodney King-type incident involving a child here in the UK, where even CS spray is only a recent introduction. Does anyone know how such a situation would be (or has been) dealt with here, or in other locations where the cops are provided with less equipment?