And that’s on average in the US. Pretty sure Texas cities are higher.
Plus, there are alternatives. We’ve been going to local breweries with outdoor seating. A trip to the men’s requires masking. Getting refills requires masking.
We’ve had friends over for drinks outside. Bathroom trips are done one at a time.
I’d differentiate between bars and nightclubs. If every bar were packed continuously, that industry would be a whole hell of a lot more profitable than it is. And only a pretty small minority of them are loud like that either. Think about a wine bar or martini or jazz bar, maybe in a nice hotel, as opposed to a college joint selling dollar beers. It’s just nowhere near the same thing.
Even the kinds of places we (used to) go for happy hour were still louder, more crowded and more continuous than a restaurant: lunch might be 45 minutes, but happy “hour” is usually a couple hours. Even wine bars and such tend to have small tables and people seated close together. Real estate is expensive and boring old people bars are, at least around here, often in repurposed old houses or other pretty small places. They can’t afford to have a lot of wasted space. And the background music may not be overwhelming, but it’s loud enough that you talk louder than you would standing in a quiet room.
I mean, yes, a nightclub or college bar is even worse, but my memories of trivia night at the local brewpub show it hitting a lot of the same marks, just not quite as hard.
There is certainly a spectrum, but there’s no reason that can’t be accounted for in the way of capacity constraints.
I don’t think it’s just capacity. It’s structural. You’d need duration limits–a person with COVID sitting at a bar, maskless, for 2-3 hours is filling the space with virus. You need volume constraints–people yelling at each other undoes a lot of the good that distancing provides. And a lot of bars can’t do capacity constraints and stay profitable. Sure, they aren’t always packed, but the times when they are (weekend nights, game nights) pay for the other times.
At some point, bars won’t feel like bars. I know I wouldn’t go if I had to leave after an hour–because usually I have a drink, then wait at least 90 minutes before I am safe to drive. Others won’t go if there’s no music. For others, bars are for mingling and meeting people.
Dancing Gnome is a brewery in Pittsburgh with an outdoor beer garden. They are by reservation only. You make your 1 hour 45 minute reservation for your party and are waited on by masked servers. You leave when your time is up and they disinfect your seating area for the next party.
Well, they certainly don’t feel like bars when they’re closed! I see nothing wrong with letting a neighborhood-type bar owner open with capacity constraints if he can do that and somehow manage to keep paying some bills. And in the offing, of course, let some people – those who are happy accepting the risk – still have that experience available to them.
But who knows, maybe the kinds of bars I’m talking about are already able to operate as ‘restaurants’ in some places. Or maybe, though it doesn’t help the bar owner, people are still able to get that same experience in actual restaurants. Or the bar at Chili’s, for example. But then again, I hear that even restaurants aren’t allowed to serve people indoors in New York (still!).
Like, you don’t see anything wrong with it anywhere, no matter how much COVID is in the community?
I think they should have the same guidelines as the restaurants, if they have similar structural designs. So, it would depend on that.
It’s not only their risk. It’s the risk of anyone who might be in their vicinity for the next couple of weeks or longer.
If everybody who goes out to a bar will then quarantine in isolation for the next two weeks, then it would be their own risk that’s the issue.
I think if you are going to do that, you need to put some constraints on both–volume and duration–that will apply more to bars but are probably good practice. Until we have a vaccine, I can’t see how people staying in loud, public places for hours can be safe.
That in no way means they can’t still determine on their own if they think the risk is worth taking.
So you feel comfortable making the decision on behalf of someone else (really, a bunch of someone elses, many of whom you don’t even know)? Would you similarly feel comfortable with somebody you don’t know making the decision for you as to what risks YOU are going to take?
You mean the ones I can, or the ones I can’t?
No, I found the article. This was the exact quote:
“We have zero percent to a 0.3 percent death rate,” said Jessica Williams, among the parents who spoke during the evening’s public comment session. “And I know it’s not nice to talk about death — we don’t want any kids to die — but we’re talking about potentially two children that could die in this district, and you’re going to disrupt the lives of 2,398 children and their families so that potentially two kids can be saved?”
The ones you can or can’t what?
What you seem to be saying is that you, as an essential worker or a neighbor or an elderly family member or my child’s teacher, etc., risk exposure to whatever viruses I pick up. You didn’t get to go to the bar in the first place, so you made no decisions about that, and you might not even know about my visit to the bar, but my decision to go bar-hopping means I’m carrying the virus now and you face exposure. I, slash2k, made the decision that the thrill of going to the bar was worth risking your exposure.
Please clarify.
Which risk exactly is it that you are comfortable taking by not following protocols (like mask wearing)?
- I am willing to “take the risk” of infecting SOMEONE ELSE because I might be infectious and not know it.
or are you saying
- Other people know the risks of being around someone without a mask, and if they want to take the chance, that’s their decision. Not my problem, nuttin’ to do with me.
If they can decide for other people whether the risk is worth taking, why can’t I decide for them that the risk is not worth taking?
I’m familiar with Wisconsin. Do you not think schools are important in Wisconsin? If only as day care and a social environment for kids?
Bars are perhaps the most covid-dangerous thing ordinary people do. Indoors, crowded, poor ventilation, no masks, and people get drunk and make bad decisions.
I miss dancing every week. I miss playing bridge in person. I miss hanging out with friends to watch TV and eat pizza together. Right now I’m talking with you guys over the internet instead of hanging out with friends in person. 