Corporal Punishment - What's the Conventional Wisdom?

Corporal punishment was the primary means of discipline in many families in the time and place in which I grew up. I’ve drawn disbelieving reactions from my upper-class, professional colleagues when I describe the routine ass-whuppings that kept my friends and me in line. I have chosen not to hit my own son, but overall, I am ambivalent about corporal punishment.

So…what were/are your experiences with corporal punishment? Did you receive it at home or school? What was your socioeconomic class, and what part of the country or world do/did you live in? Do you use corporal punishment on your kids? What is your perception of the general level of acceptance of corporal punishment in your area? What would you consider excessive?

In this thread, I would rather not get into the moral aspects, or whether corporal punishment works. I would just like to know how it is viewed by you and your peers.

Corporal punishment is viewed by me and my peers as a “quick-fix solution” for parents who are too lazy to put any effort into disciplining their kids, and choose to bully them instead.

I saw a television program where a family applied corporal punishment thoughtfully and with much planning, where if a child needed to be disciplined they could choose between being spanked or having a particular privilege revoked. The spankings were always administered in a quiet, private place and only when the child chose a spanking over another appropriate consequence. This approach is the only one that could make corporal punishment palatable to me. And yet, I don’t even think I will use it with my own children.

I was only spanked twice in my life, both times were when I was doing something to put myself in grave danger.

My son was spanked as a small kid. I had a few rules I used:

- Cupped hand only. I was after generated sound more than stinging buns.
- More than 3 swats is a beating. The most I ever gave him was 2 at a time.
- I never threatened. He'd get a single warning, after which he was subject to 
  spanking.

I stopped when he was kindergarten age, because loss of privilege became a more feared punishment. Soon after we became active in martial arts, and push-ups and the like were added to my personal repertiore, He’s 16 now, and hasn’t killed anyone yet.

Unless they really needed killin’, of course…

Spoken by someone who doesn’t have any children yet? :wink:

Physical discipline, like any other discipline, becomes meaningless when applied too liberally. Threats of spankings not followed up with the actuality of same are equally meaningless and undermine your authority. Asking if a child would “like a spanking” is a rhetorical question for a 3-year old.

Corporal punishment was used by me on my children in very measured amounts. I don’t know if they resent it or not, but it seemed right in those situations.

I was not physically punished by my parents on more than two occasions, and I deserved it both times. It probably should have been administered more often.

It’s truly unfortunate that there aren’t classes for life preparation. Dealing with children is a complicated mess and most people who have them are completely unprepared for the experience.

I grew up in a working-class American family in Los Angeles. My parents used spontaneous corporal punishment on occassion. If my mother was completely fed up, she’d give us quick slaps on the ass. My father played bad cop and gave me maybe 3-4 slaps upside the head over the course of my childhood. They weren’t particularly painful, but I think I was terrified of my father’s anger. It served as a very effective last line of defense. I believe that their actions were fine and appropriate. My parents were far from bullying - they mostly let me make my own decisions and allowed me great freedom. But the incidental smacks reminded me that there were certain lines not be crossed and I respect that.

My wife and I are college-educated professionals, solidly middle-class, and in the minority on these issues among our peers of a similar class. However, we are people of color and POC generally view corporal punishment in a better light than most white folks of a similar class. We live in the Bay Area and we believe it has it’s place in the world of parenting.

Our son is 2 and when he absolutely refuses to comply after repeated offers, he will have his hand smacked or ear pulled. He is given ample warning and he knows the consequences of his decision. We refuse to spend 10 minutes negotiating with him when he doesn’t want to get in the car, etc. There are times to negotiate and there are times when we are the parents and he just needs to listen and comply. By no means are we lazy parents, but there has to be a line that isn’t crossed and there have to be real consequences involved. I’ve never really seen an effective “timeout.”

Personally, I think the whole method of planning a spanking is borderline creepy. I punish my child when my anger is rising up. I don’t bottle it up and save it and arrange for a spanking later. I can’t imagine doing that.

Sorry, Chefguy, I should have said; "Corporal punishment , as it is applied by most of the parents I have seen, … "

As for having children, I don’t have any biological ones but I spent a few years parenting the kids of my ex-girlfriend. That old “wait til you have kids” chestnut probably has a grain of truth in it, but it’s not necessarily correct. In 18 years of parenting, my mother spanked her children three times, total, and my father never did. The family friend who cared for me for six years and is my “other mom” had four children and never spanked them. She is a devout yogic practitioner who vowed to practice ahimsa, non-harming, when she was sixteen. She’s now 46, and has four awesome, bright, well-adjusted kids (well, two kids and two grown men) who have never been hit.
It is possible to be a parent without hitting your kids. It’s a lot of work, but it’s possible.

I have two children and would agree in essence with kung fu lola’s (amended) statement. Just to throw in another data point.

We’d already decided that we were philosophically opposed to corporal punishment, even before Whatsit Jr. came along. Now I feel even more strongly that for us, it is the wrong decision, because Whatsit Jr. is 1) very imitative, and 2) prone to outbursts of physical violence when he is very frustrated. In other words, he’ll lash out by hitting or kicking, especially when he’s tired. The last thing we want to do is to confuse him by hitting him ourselves, then trying to explain that hitting another person to get them to do what you want them to do is OK when done by parents, but not when done by Whatsit Jr.

There are circumstances where it is appropriate to teach children that “It’s OK when I do it, but not when you do it” – handling knives, for example, or going outside the house unaccompanied – but I don’t think this is one of them.

I’ve got six kids, from 16 down to 9. I really don’t think they would be the kids they are today without the spankings they got when they were younger, and I know I wouldn’t be the man I am today without the spankings I got. Yes, there is a fine line between punishment and abuse, but with a little common sense and just a couple rules, it’s easily managed.

Rules

  1. Never spank when you are angry. Tell them you’re going to spank, but delay it for at least a half hour to calm down.

  2. Never spank more than the childs age. 5 year old = 5 swats MAX.

It kind of depends on context.

It’s probably true that children of non-aggressive parents, raised in a non-physically aggressive households, will have less tendency to act out physically when they are frustrated, but this is not necessarily centered in the lower classes in my experience. There are quite a large number of doctors, lawyers and Indian Chief mothers and fathers of my acquaintence who will administer corporal discipline without hesitation. The main differentiation in attitudes I have found is in “A” vs “B” type personalities across class lines. Some professions are overwhelmingly comprised of “B” type personalities (academia and various bureaucracies come to mind) and in these peer groups there will be a high level of distaste for corporal punishment. In other professions with more aggressive personalites like law, upper corporate levels and sales, opinions about corporal punishment, used appropriately, are less negative.

There are also cultural differences. Jewish and WASP familes tend to be less oriented toward direct corporal punishment, while African American families and Italian families (among others) often see it as normal part of the parental toolbag if used judiciously.

I don’t disagree that there are times of insanely egregious behavior by children when corporal punishment needs to be applied. I have used corporal punishment, and threats thereof, to keep my aggressive 13 year od son from physically and verbally tormenting his relatively passive 17 year sister. She does do very annoying things at times that anyone wold be pissed at, but he has an explosive temper and his reactions are way off the scale of appropriate responses, and he has developed the nasty habit of making threatening weapons out of nearby objects when he is angry. When he’s not in these confrontational situations he’s a nice, relatively obedient and helpful child.

I have him about 10 days a month and there are no issues when he is with me one on one. It’s when he is in the little alpha dog mode at my ex’s house that these confrontations occur and she (my ex) calls me on the phone to run over and be bad cop.

Speaking from hard experience I can assure you that talking to’s and non-physical punishments may work fine for some children, but they have their limits in terms of effectiveness for others. Especially innately aggressive or stubborn children.

Corporal punishments can work quickly and effectively, but they have to be very judiciously moderated and this often difficult to do. Threats of physical punishment can easily become hard wired into some frustrated parent’s dialogs with their children and at that point you can have serious problems, as the incipient threat of parental violence (whether acted on or not) becomes just a normal part of the child’s landscape.

There is aslo the issue of violence begetting violence. How much of my son’s lashing out at his sister is innate adolescent male aggression, and how much of it did he learn from seeing physical aggression used by his parents (primarily his mom FWIW) to solve problems.

Looming on the horizion is also another potentially dangerous issue I have addressed with him directly. I have told him that by the time he is 16 or 17 he is probably going to be 6’3" or better and weigh well over 200 lbs, and that he needs to get a handle on how he expresses his frustration, because I do not intend to be rolling around in the front yard at the age of 50 battling a large teenager, and that he may be put in juvenile hall if he becomes uncontrollable. He scoffs at this.

In the end I sometimes have to use physical restraint, or come within a hair’s breadth of it, to get him wound down. Reasoned dialog is near useless when he is angry. I don’t have a long term solution, but there are times when corporal restraint and punishment is immediately necessary.

That sucks. Been there myself.

I’m from a white middle-class Southern background, and there was definately corporal punishment in my childhood. I think it can have its place in healthy child-raising, although there’s definately a line to cross to “bad hitting” territory. And yeah, there was a little bit of bad hitting in my childhood, but even then I could tell the difference and I think as long as you as a parent are aware of the boundaries that the occaisional spanking can be a good tool. Not the only tool, of course.

I think the difference between effective corporal punishment and bad hitting is that effective spankings are:

-Delivered on the spot at the time of transgression, no “wait in your room until your father gets home!”

-Never done with an object (and not with that big show of taking your belt off even if you don’t intend to use it) or with a closed hand

-Clear consequences for actions that have been clearly stated to be unacceptable

-Not done in rage or fury at the -child-

-The end of the issue. I’m not saying they can’t be accompanied by other punishments, like sending the child to his or her room afterwards, but that’s somethign to set out at the time of the spanking. A spanking should never be just a part of a fight that’s going to go on after it.

I don’t think it’s useful to drag out the anticipation by saying “In half an hour, I’m going to come upstairs and beat you. You know, after I’ve calmed down.” I mean, it dosen’t work to rub a dog’s nose in urine it deposited the night before - I think a spanking should be the swift answer to certain behavior if you’re going to use it at all.

Oh, but when I was a kid I thought all dads were just acting when they took their belts off.

Yes. Both.

I grew up in Cleveland, in an area that was a mix of middle class and lower middle class.

I don’t have kids. I have given the dogs an occasional swat on the butt though ;). Typically that happens when they are new to the household and persist in doing something really undesirable or dangerous. Works very well on them, anyway. Once is almost always enough.

In the place and time where I grew up, it was very, very common. I don’t think I knew anyone who didn’t experience it. In the area I live now, it seems to be pretty uncommon.

Hitting with an object, leaving marks, hitting the head or face.

I think there’s a difference between “hitting” and “spanking.”

I don’t want kids to grow up thinking that physical violence—hitting, kicking, punching, or beating another person—is a legitimate way to solve problems, express anger, or get someone else to do something. But if they grow up believing that whacking someone on the butt with your bare hand is a legitimate way to solve problems, express anger, or get someone else to do something—eh, I can live with that. :slight_smile:

In Montana, corporal punishment in schools is banned by rule:

20-4-302. Discipline and punishment of pupils – definition of corporal punishment – penalty – defense.
(2) For the purposes of this section, “corporal punishment” means knowingly and purposely inflicting physical pain on a pupil as a disciplinary measure.
(3) A person who is employed or engaged by a school district may not inflict or cause to be inflicted corporal punishment on a pupil.
(7) If a person who is employed or engaged by a school district uses corporal punishment or more physical restraint than is reasonable or necessary, the person is guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction of the misdemeanor by a court of competent jurisdiction, shall be fined not less than $25 or more than $500.

This was enacted in 1977.

Whistlepig

But isn’t that the whole purpose of pain: negative reinforcement? Pain is Nature’s way of telling you, “Hey, idiot, don’t do that!” :dubious:

Having once been a Corporal in the USMC I gotta say that that’s punishment enough. Sorta really sucked.