:: leans over from her gray-haired antiquity and kisses FudgeNugget on the forehead ::
bless you, dear. it’s the kids like you that manage to keep civilization rolling.
lachesis
There’s a difference between parental love and allowing too much freedom/carelessness. Back in the days of corporal punishment and spankings, kids appreciated what they had. These days, when parents don’t punish their kids properly, they think they have it rough (despite having a lot more money and material possessions than people like me) because some other spoiled brat owns just a little more, so they begin doing crap they shouldn’t.
Parents today are too lax. What’s the point of a time out? Or being grounded? Great idea, send your kid to his room for a couple of hours so he can watch TV, play video games, listen to his CDs, etc.
Same with psychiatrists. What’s with all of these new “disorders”? ADD for example; if a child is acting up and doing bad in school because he’s too busy fooling around (contrary to popular belief, not many kids really are less intelligent than their peers; many are just lazy as hell), then he’s got ADD. The doctor prescribes Ritalin (a STIMULANT). Great, now you’re giving your kid drugs to make up an excuse for his bad behavior and your poor parenting.
I don’t mean any offense to people with ADD, nor am I trying to generalize over parents and kids. I’m saying too many parents are way too lax.
It’s no surprise that so many of you have instantly equated my spanking commentary with other forms of abuse, as that’s what always tends to happen. Spanking is a MILLION MILES from cracking a kid over the head with an instrument or taking out the belt. No weapons, no marathon beatings, just a smack or two on the ass at less than full throttle. Just enough to serve as a reminder instead of a scar. There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between spankings and beatings, but everyone seems to really like jumping aboard the abuse train in a hurry.
Lissa mentioned “the look”. What does that look imply? If there’s never been a spanking as ‘what comes next if you keep this up,’ it’s just a meaningless scary face. If someone pulls back his fist to punch you in the mouth and then pauses and you’ve never been hit or seen anyone else hit in your life, what does it imply? Nothing. The Look is only of any value if it carries some weight of negative expectations.
Also, another note on parenting.
If parents think sending their kids to institutions, programs, prep/private schools, etc. will solve anything, I disagree.
Has anyone ever seen the movie “Cruel Intentions” (not saying that movies provide any accurate description of reality, but I believe that movie in particular shows a lot about what can potentially happen)? In a lifestyle such as that, rich parents are essentially giving their kids the idea that they can just cruise through life without worrying about anything, due to wealth. From this idea, those kids think they can get away with just about anything.
On the other extreme, a poor lifestyle wouldn’t be too good either. Anyone ever seen “8 Mile” (again, not accurate, but an example of potential occurences)? Kids would not get the good education they need, therefore they wouldn’t get a job they need, therefore they would resort to other means (drug dealing, robbery, etc).
There needs to be some sort of moderation in a way of life that wouldn’t turn out bad kids.
On a side note regarding the movies, a lot of media glorifies corruption; not saying we should do something as drastic as banning movies or anything, we all like watching TV on occasion, but its something to think about.
Context: response to another quote about why spanking in on the wane.
Spanking a child is great evidence of laziness, apathy and shitty parenting. Spanking is often a short cut that parents use to true discipline, which mostly involves being around your child ALOT.
There really isn’t that big a jump between spanking and abuse. Much like there isn’t that big a jump between “time out” and jail time (which is how we discipline adults, why wouldn’t we discipline our children this way?)
What, you mean chastity belts and that kind of thing?
Keep in mind I want no extremes. You’re saying true discipline is being around your child a lot? To me thats synonymous with overprotection. I have a cousin (freshman in college) in NJ who’s been overprotected by his mother (his father’s in Taiwan, my cousin came to go to college here), and I must say, he’s a damn sad turnout. Despite the fact that his father’s an executive in a cell phone company or something, they spend VERY little on my cousin, in order to avoid spoiling him. He’s not allowed to drive himself, he has very few articles of clothing and many are in bad condition, hell his mom accompanies him wherever he needs to go, and on one occasion she even barged into his college dormroom to wake him up for a test. To my knowledge he rarely misbehaved, but according to him he’s not too happy. That’s not discipline.
There is a line between spanking and abuse, we just shouldn’t cross it unless its appropriate for a certain action.
As for time out and jail time…what the hell is time out? Make a kid stand/sit in the corner facing the wall for about 5 minutes so he can seethe?
Explain.
The point of grounding is to not let the child do what he prefers to do.That means you don’t send a kid who’s perfectly content to be in his room with the tv and video game to his room for a couple of hours. For that kid, you take the TV and the video game out of the room for a day or a week. You ground a child who wants to be out with his or friends.
Not the same thing at all. True discipline requires actually spending time with your children, and teaching them how to behave in such a way that when faced with something new, they will be able to figure out how to behave. Not simply being in the same place as the child, ignoring misbehavior for a while and then suddenly yelling at, spanking or grounding the child for the misbehavior that was fine five minutes ago.And that is how spanking is sometimes used as a shortcut - it’s easier and quicker to spank than it is to explain what the child did wrong ,why it was wrong and enforce some other punishment.
Live is not a picnic for me when I ground my son. It means he’s in the house and either my husband or I have to stay home to enforce it. It would be much easier to spank him except for the minor point it wouldn’t work on him.
If the child prefers to go out to play with his friends and you sent him to his room, he still has alternatives to rely on. If he can’t watch TV and play video games, he has alternatives to rely on. After a while the kid’s gonna catch on and hide his playstation or whatever he’s got, same with the TV cable (don’t tell me you’re going to remove the whole thing 
). Besides, grounding would only lead the child to hate you for not letting him do whatever he preferred to. What does he learn from that?
With the being around the child thing…what you’re suggesting is not true discipline, its merely teaching the child life skills and stuff he should/shouldn’t be doing. This, as well as lecturing/explaining what the child did wrong, should be done at a more impressionable age, when he’s STILL LEARNING the basics of right and wrong.
And I’m not suggesting spanking alone, certainly not. Spanking alone, right after a misbehavior (at a younger impressionable age), just leaves the kid bewildered and he doesn’t know what he’s done wrong. If you explain what he did wrong for the first few times, then afterwards comes the spanking, because the child must first have a firm understanding of what he’s doing wrong, and then the punishment he’ll get as a result of it. At a later age, its just spanking because he knows what he’s doing wrong and he knows what’s coming to him.
Plus, where would you ground the kid? If it is in his room, like the stereotype goes, then you’d be surprised what kids can hide…
**
Yes, actually, I did, believe it or not.
I felt ashamed if my parents seemed to be disappointed in me. Just the thought of that was enough to restrain me from getting into a lot of trouble. I’m not saying I was perfect by any means, but I was pretty receptive to logic and reasoning. I was grounded quite a few times, and lectured when need be, but I didn’t ever get in any real trouble. They had raised me to be level-headed, and didn’t need to hold the threat of physical violence over me to keep me in line.
**
Man, me too. Perhaps that says something.
My actions did have consequences, just not physical ones. Just like in the real world, wrongdoing was punished by detention (grounding), fines (loss of allowance), loss of privledges, or community service (having to do extra chores.) I don’t expect my boss will strike me if I am late to work tomorrow, but there will be repercussions. Likewise, it is very possible to punish a child without corporal means.
When I was grounded, it wasn’t “playtime” in my room, either. I was told I not allowed to use the phone, or the TV or whatever, so I didn’t. I didn’t need to be struck, or have those items physically removed: I obeyed my parents. I imagine that had I not, the items WOULD have been removed for a very long time indeed, and additional sanctions piled on.
**
I did not “hate” my parents for this. How absurd. Childrens’ emotions may run high, but any kid who * hates * his mother and father for punishment when the child has knowingly broke the rules has serious emotional issues.
And, I must point out, it is important for a child to understand * very early * that he/she may not do “whatever they prefer to do.” He’ll find out in a swift, brutal fashion once he hits the real world if he hasn’t yet learned it at home. With proper parenting, a child learns that he must conform his behavior, regardless of what he wants to do. Letting a kid the impression that he can is dangerous indeed.
**
Again, I must disagree. Grounding a child will lead to hatred, but physical violence will not? As I said, my parents talked to me at length about what I had done wrong, why it was wrong, and what they expected of me. Then, they would impose punishment. I was fully aware of casue = effect at a young age. I understood the rules and what would happen if I violated them.
Kids today have a much bigger feeling of entitlement then I did. if you are a kid today and you don’t have a color Tv in your room and a computer and if you don’t get a car as a birthday present on your 16th birthday, then your life is somehow unfair. Oh yeah, kids today think that you don’t have to pay for anything, as per illegal downloading and file sharing of music.
Also, kids today think that working at McDonalds or another fast-food type restaurant is somehow beneath them.:rolleyes:
There was a great quote in Rolling Stone last year from a 16 year old. He was asked what kind of job he wanted, his response was, “Some job where I don’t have any responsibility and I don’t really have to do anything and I can surf the 'Net and it has to pay at least $10 an hour.” :wally :rolleyes: :wally :rolleyes: :wally :rolleyes:
Realizing that there are lies, damn lies, and statistics, I read in a recient parenting mag that 63% of parents spank their kids occasionally, 24% have done so once or twice in the past and the remaining 13% found the behavior reprehensible.
I think spanking in general has suffered at the hand of Political Correctness. While it’s possible to overdo ANYTHING, it’s also possible to UNDERdo.
SMACK, now pay attention. And change your user name to something less offensive while you are at it.
From M. A. Straus, ‘Corporal punishment and primary prevention of physical abuse’, in Child Abuse and Neglect, Vol 24, No 9, pp.1109-1114, 2000 summarized in Save the Children 2001 submission to the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child for its General Discussion Day on Violence against Children in Schools and within the Family titled Ending Corporal Punishment of Children: Making it Happen:
**
From the Statistics Canada’s: Family Violence in Canada: A Statistical Profile 2001
**
From M L Gunnoe and C L Mariner, ‘Towards a developmental-contextual model of the effects of parental spanking on children’s aggression’, in Gunnoe et al, Archives of Paediatric Adolescent Medicine 151, pp. 768-775, 1997; M. A. Straus et al, ‘Spanking by parents and subsequent anti-social behaviour of children’, in Archives of Paediatric Adolescent Medicine 151, pp. 761-767, 1997; T Brezina, ‘Adolescent maltreatment and delinquency: the question of intervening processes’, in Journal of Research in Crime and Delinquency 35, pp. 171-99, 1998; and P Leach, ‘The physical punishment of children: some input from recent research’, NSPCC UK, 1998; summarized in Save the Children 2001 submission to the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child for its General Discussion Day on Violence against Children in Schools and within the Family titled Ending Corporal Punishment of Children: Making it Happen:
**
Hang on, you’re 14, and you are complaining about corruption in America’s youth?
(Pot: Hey, Kettle! You’re black!)
So you are uncorrupted, while 6-8 years olds are corrupted?
See, now thats a logical fallacy. The more parents that like ice cream, the greater tendency they’ll give their kids ice cream too.
This says that if there’s abuse there’s inappropriate punishment…and the second paragraph doesn’t hold much water unless a double blind process occurs that demonstrates that the negative aspects are correlated…and they mention abuse there’s no distinction between 6 spankings in a lifetime and ‘evening beating time with a belt’.
If your child is running into the street. And you warn them. And they do it again, and you threaten them, and they do it a third time and you spank them. Will they do it a fourth time?
The intent is to fiarly discipline the child when possible, but also demonstrate that your will is LAW. That may be the difference between a safe and crying child and one that gets kit by a car/burnt on a stove/ falls out of the grocery cart.
See, now thats a logical fallacy. The more parents that like ice cream, the greater tendency they’ll give their kids ice cream too. (And I see ‘corporate punishment’ and think KidBeatings, LLC. – what IS corporate punishment to kids?)
This says that if there’s abuse there’s inappropriate punishment…and the second paragraph doesn’t hold much water unless a double blind process occurs that demonstrates that the negative aspects are correlated…and they mention abuse there’s no distinction between 6 spankings in a lifetime and ‘evening beating time with a belt’.
If your child is running into the street. And you warn them. And they do it again, and you threaten them, and they do it a third time and you spank them. Will they do it a fourth time?
The intent is to fairly discipline the child when possible, but also demonstrate that your will is LAW. That may be the difference between a safe and crying child and one that gets kit by a car/burnt on a stove/ falls out of the grocery cart.
I’ve got two four month old boys. I’m still deciding what levels of discipline will be involved. We’re not violent people, but we both were spanked as children.
On a related note, I wonder what kind of person is made when the only discipline is a withering stare. Will that person have the same determination and intestinal fortitud as a person that has dealt with some level of life building hardship*.
*=that sounds bad. I’m thinking growth/character building experience. Not ‘beating to toughen the kid up’.
Bleh. Now HOW’D that get duped?
Those hampsters need to be spanked.