What he learns from that is that if he doesn’t behave, he loses privileges. Actually, I would remove the whole TV if it ever came to that, and I have taken the ps2 controllers plenty of times. He’s never tried to hide then, perhaps because he believes that it will result in the playstation going into the trash.
You are confusing discipline with punishment. They are not always the same thing.
You want to know what the real problem is? It’s not that parents take away the playstation for a weekend instead of spanking. It’s that too many parents do absolutely nothing. Those parents in the OP not only didn’t spank their kids, they also didn’t ground them, take away privileges,stop buying them anything that wasn’t absolutely necessary and very likely threatened to sue the teacher for failing their precious child.
I don’t like the idea of anyone being disappointed in me either, which is why I don’t get into too much trouble. Despite the fact that you grew up fine, there are those out there who are not so easy to raise. Those are the kids who could care less about what their parents think, and the results of that you can imagine.
When you were in school and somebody was messing around, and did something serious where he was sent to the office, did that person ever look very ashamed? Not in my experience. We have kids looking down at their feet, not because they feel guilt, but because they’re too busy trying to contain their laughter; a detention is a picnic to them (10 minutes sitting in a desk after school, what the hell is that??), and suspension a joke (in-school-suspension, do all your homework, out-of-school-suspension, day off!).
I don’t have an allowance. Never had one. I have money that my grandparents give me and stuff, but I can’t spend it (I have maybe 200 dollars in cash; never touched it), while other kids get thousands of dollars per holiday and 20 dollar a week allowances).
You’re boss will not strike you if you are late to work tomorrow, that’s the point; kids these days don’t take punishments seriously anymore. Mess around in school, get sent down to the office, to do what? Sit in a comfortable little sofa and miss class?
It IS very possible to punish a child without corporal means, but I want a punishment that will work universally, rather than only on the kids who actually care about their future.
Again, some kids aren’t so obedient.
You’re right.
Yes it is dangerous, which is why we must make kids understand what they’re doing wrong, why they can’t do it, and what’ll happen if they do.
As you said, any child who hates his parents after knowingly breaking the rules has emotional issues. I don’t think grounding is a fitting punishment for some things.
I am jealous of other kids. I will admit that. I don’t have a color TV in my room (dont need it), I don’t have my own computer (its in the dining room and shared), my parents say they won’t let me drive until after I graduate college (ultimately disappointing :mad:)…I don’t like my life, I’ll admit that too, but this all pales in comparison to the big picture and what I plan to do in the future. As for not paying for anything…I can’t buy anything myself. Let me explain:
I don’t go outside. At all. I was never too sociable. Throughout late elementary and all of middle school, I could never go out with my friends because I had to take care of my little brother, little snot he is, (misbehaves like you wouldn’t believe, goes outside with his friends, hell I mentioned him in the first post of this thread) so my sense of geography in my own neighborhood is extremely poor. So I relied on the TV because unlike all the other kids, I didn’t have the new hottest video game console on the market, then I turned to the computer, and here I am, with my only real method of communication being AOL Instant Messenger, rarely going out with friends (or at all).
I do download stuff, I do have file sharing programs, and have amassed a huge sum of music and movies. Why? Because I don’t have enough money (as explained in my last post) to go blowing it off on 15 dollar CDs, 30 dollar DVDs, 50 dollar video games, or 200 dollar video game consoles, nor can I get them if I want to because I have to have my parents take me everywhere, unlike everyone else with older friends hanging out at the mall for several hours, spending the money their parents gave them on useless garbage. I’ve never been to a Starbucks, Outback, Chilis, and a variety of other places, including fancy restaurants. Kids today don’t think they have to pay for anything; I say they have too much money in their pockets to care.
Kids think working at fast food restaurants is beneath them because their lifestyles have been too good for them to work in a greasy, unsanitary place such as that. Minimum wage isn’t enough because an employee in McDonalds makes in a year, what those kids get in allowance in a couple weeks.
This is entirely the parents’ fault. Had they raised their child properly in the first place, they wouldn’t have problems like that.
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If I had ever come home reporting that I had been suspended, there would have been hell to pay. I’d probably * still * be grounded! The parents have either encouraged or ignored bad behavior from their children, and are entirely responsible for the results.
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The point of an allowence should be to teach children how to manage their money. They should learn how to budget in order to save up for something they really want, and should they spend it all, sorry, no trip to the movies with your friends. They should also be taught how to save money in a bank, preparing them for real life financial matters. No kid shoudl ever get thousands of dollars, unless it goes straight to the bank.
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Again, fault of the parents. Had they taught their child proper respect, their kids wouldn’t act that way, or take punishments with a snicker. Not teaching a kid respect is a fatal mistake.
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Again, it’s the parents. I was not born caring about my furture. I was * taught * by my parents to be responsible and respectful of their rules and of the rules of the outside world.
There is no punishment that works universally. I couldn’t have cared less if my television were taken away, but take away my books, and I was heartbroken. Likewise, some kids will bear five minutes of a spanking, and shrug it off. Spanking is not a * lasting * consequence. What does work universally is to spend a great deal of time talking, teaching, and interacting with your kids, gently correcting problems before they get out of hand.
I’m sorry, but I still see spanking as lazy parenting.
Raising good kids is a full-time job which takes huge effort. Yeah, it’s easy just to give out the rules and then smack kids around if they break them, but what have they really * learned? * Fear of pain. What they didn’t learn is why these rules are so important, and what happens in the real world if you break the rules. Hitting a kid acomplishes nothing, but steady, consistent, loving discipline does.
If you spend enough time and effort with your children, you won’t need to resort to violence in order to keep them in line. My sister-in-law is a perfect example. She does not spank, and her children are wonderful. She spends a huge amount of time with them, teaching them to be good people, and it shows. By gently correcting bad behavior when it begins, and not letting them get away with little defiances or rudeness, she’ll never have a problem with a child who swears at her, or laughs off her discipline.
I’d say I’m not as corrupt. I’ve tried pot before a few times earlier this school year and failed to achieve anything; then, I finally felt the effects during my one and last time; I went through the usual routine when I did what I did, and, not anticipating the effects to be what they had been, I got caught by my parents. I won’t provide details. I haven’t touched the stuff in almost four months, no addiction and no damage I know of, no slip in grades, no ruined life. Won’t chance it for a while, hopefully never again.
The kids that are coming in from elementary school to the 6th grade; most of them have already had sex, so I hear. Now I’m wondering, where do elementary schools kids get exposed to that sorta thing when the only thing I can think of is health class? Not only that, but where do they get protection or whatever has prevented a new generation of corrupted children from being spawned? Kids swap porn on the bus; so I hear.
Explain the difference, because I don’t understand what you mean.
I completely agree. However, I still say that some punishments work better than others during certain situations. For the kids of parents that do absolutely nothing and want to do something, grounding would be meaningless as a punishment; some punishments are more appropriate for certain situations.
Then what do you suggest be done when its too late to dwell on the past? We can’t change the past.
Again, how do you suggest we fix this?
Yes it should, but apparently if the child attempts to waste his money on worthless garbage, and the parent intervenes to stop him and control what he can buy, then the child will begin to think he can’t do anything with it.
Yes, kids should be taught those life skills, but done in a manner where he actually learns something more practical than how he’s going to get the new GameCube next year, or that trip to the movies tomorrow.
More past problems that need present solutions.
Talking, teaching, interacting translates to lecturing if you plan to use it as a punishment. If you want to do it while a child is still growing, then that’s something you were supposed to do in the first place.
As I said before…teach the child at an early age how to behave properly. If he does something wrong, explain what he did wrong, why it is wrong, and what will happen to him if he does it, meaning punishment. The first few times, lectures should be used to establish a firm UNDERSTANDING of that act of misbehavior. THEN comes spanking. What have they learned? Fear of pain, thats right, because pain is the punishment that you taught him, motivating him to not do it again. This is the discipline that must be steady and consistent, but also appropriate as a punishment. Repeatedly lecturing a child accomplishes nothing because he shuts it out; he’s heard this before, he can withstand thirty minutes of blah blah blah yadda yadda yadda again.
Then your sister-in-law is a good parent who doesn’t NEED to resort to spanking because she has taught her children understand what is right and what is wrong, and has done what she was supposed to do.
The original intention of it was never to fit in, nor did I fall victim to peer pressure, although my first time was with others.
Remember when I said I never went out of the house? Remember when I said I wasn’t very happy with my life? Can you imagine how incredibly bored (it goes far beyond the word “boring”, but bear with me here) I was with what I was doing? It wasn’t a solution, didn’t even make me feel better, it was more of a distraction.
It was a godsend. Unlike most people my age, I’m not a moron, so I did do plenty of research and I knew what I was doing, what that stuff was, what it did, all risks considered, etc. This is why I’m posting on this forum and not in a circle at a rehab clinic or a cell in jail, and also why I didn’t go onto harder stuff (the latter also because I couldn’t afford any of that stuff anyway; I saved up lunch money).
You know the rest. The point is, I never did it because I thought drugs are cool; and for the people who do think that of me, go to hell.
FudgeNugget writes: “Kids think working in fast food restaraunts is beneath them…”
I don’t know. I was fifteen not so long ago. Do you know what I did for money? I was a chicken seasoner in a fast food place. It was part of a national chain. You’ve probably eaten there (it was a sort of poor man’s Chilis). I certainly didn’t love the job, but it had it’s moments. It didn’t consist of surfing the internet and drinking Starbuck’s coffee, and the pay was barely enough to buy a meal at the Outback. But it provided a paycheck, which was nice.
Now you might respond by saying “I didn’t mean all kids are lazy shits.” But your comment about the work ethic of today’s youth was only the worst example of the many generalizations you’ve been making in this thread.
I never used to get spanked; I ued to get beat! With anything that my mom happened to have around at the time. And don’t think for a minute this was child abuse; it wasn’t.
And getting hit? Always worked for me, believe me. Once I took a scissors to a couch (yes I was VERY destructive), I NEVER did it again, you can be sure of that.
You didn’t seem to take into account that later in the same sentence I referred to “those kids”. “Those kids” refers to the kids who think working in fast food restaurants is beneath them.
I’d work in a fast food restaurant if I could, but I can’t because 1) I’d have to have my parents get me there all the time and 2) can’t use the money I earn anyway. So I don’t work.
And yes I may respond by saying I didn’t mean all kids are lazy shits, because NOT all kids are lazy shits, and for those that aren’t, I say good for you. You’re going to make your way to the top after all the crap you went through in school, and when you do, all the idiots that you had to put up with face the real world, a world without their parents as a safety net and bottomless source of income, without being stupid making them the most reknowned. OR…if cynicism prevails, you’re not going to get anywhere, and all those idiots have their parents bribe their way through the system, while the idiot him/herself sleeps his way to straight A’s and exploits the ideas of others for his/her own benefit.
It wasn’t my original comment about kid’s work ethic anyway, it was Payton’s Servant. As for generalizations, can you blame me? I haven’t seen too much beyond the stereotypes I’ve made, but those people do exist.
Speaking of work ethics, and “those kids”, “those kids” are usually the ones who have elaborately planned out wealthy careers for the future (insanely expensive medical schools and the like, of which they don’t seem to need financial assisstance for). Good for them, they might get somewhere; what troubles me is their attitude. Their arrogance. I HATE arrogance.
In a conversation, I say my cousin was lucky to get into Rutgers despite his high school records; “that kid” says, “well Rutgers is easy to get into.” Maybe if it was so easy to get into, you’d have skipped a couple of grades and be in a better college yourself, asshole.
Whoa, look at me, I bs about going to several different summer schools and having several tutors as well, so that gives me the right to give an exasperated sigh and say “I’m gonna kill myself if I don’t get an A+”, and when that kid does get his test back, he/she still gives an exasperated sigh, forces a tear, and begins with his/her extreme disappointment in a 98. Wow, all when the person next to him/her is quietly slipping away a C…real considerate.
Start enforcing discipline. Immediately correct bad behaviors. Take away privledges, and stick to it. Be firm, but understanding. Impose a punishment, and if the child remains defiant, escallate the consequences. If need be, remove toys and electronics from the child’s room and lock them away. Don’t give in, or let things “slide.” Be consistent, and spend more time with the child. (The more he/she is under direct supervision, the less opprotunities they will have to misbehave.)
If a person has been a bad parent for years, it will take a very long time to fix the problem, but it can be done without resorting to violent acts. Supreme patience will be required, but it can be done. I’ve seen it work with adopted kids who were half-wild and had never had adequate parental supervision.
If the child remains completely incourrigible, then professional help, such as therapy, may be needed.
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Let him waste it if he will, but don’t bail him out when something comes up and he wants extra spending money. I learned this lesson very quickly. If I wasted my money on a CD or clothes and then was invited to go out with my friends to a concert, I couldn’t go because I had spent my allowance already. There were no “loans.” Yes, my room and board were free, but I had to learn to budget for the extra things I wanted.
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I think this lesson is practical. It teaches delayed gratification, self-control, and responsibility on a level a child intimately understands. He’s not going to enjoy sitting down with you and going over the household expenses, but he will easily understand that he can either buy a game now, or go to the movies and save part of his allowance for several weeks until he has enough to buy it without sacrificing other enjoyments.
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Exactly.
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Because my parents and I frequently discussed the rules, the reasons and the consequences, often the lectures only were, “Lissa, do you understand what you did wrong? Do you understand why we have this rule? Why did you break it?” Then the punishment was imposed.
Perhaps “lecture” is the wrong word. I should have said “discussion,” because that’s what it was, requiring my feedback. Occasionally, I argued that something was unfair, and then we would talk about why that rule was important. Often, wheedling on my part was involved, trying to squirm out of my punishment, but by the time the discussion was over, I pretty much accepted that I deserved what I had gotten. You can’t shut out someone who’s asking you questions, and honestly seems interested in what you have to say.
You’re right: sitting there and berating a kid for hours won’t accomplish the goal of understanding. That’s not what I’m advocating. People need to have an open dialogue with their children.
I honestly can’t see where a spanking acomplishes anything that can’t be achieved through restrictions on privledges and the like, except teaching the child on a subconcious level that hitting someone is okay if they don’t do what you want.
I’m sorry, but I honestly believe that there’s no reason to strike a child. Now, there’s a difference in, say, smacking a toddler’s hand if they reach for a hot stove burner-- they’re too young to understand reason. (Though they won’t understand a spankng, because toddlers have a poor grasp on cause = effect if the punishment is not immediate. They’ll just think that mommy or daddy is hurting them.) An older child is perfectly controlable through other means.
I, my husband, his brother, his brother’s wife, and many of our friends were raised without spanking and turned out to be pretty good people because our parents cared enough about us to spend the needed time and effort.
Then no parent should * need * to resort to spanking. If she can do it, anyone can. People owe that sort of discipline and time investment to their children. Anyone who does not deserves an unruly child, and I have no sympathy for them, and the fact that, out of desperation, they resort to striking their children speaks poorly of them. I would say to these parents that they’re the ones who deserve to be hit, and that they shouldn’t strike the child because of their own failings.
Look, even * dog * training manuals instruct owners not to strike their pets. If a creature of another species, who doesn’t even speak the language, can be taught to behave contrary to its instincts without resorting to violence, there’s really no reason to hit a child who can be reasoned with.
Not possible for some parents to directly supervise their kids for extended periods of time. As a consequence, kids tend to take out stuff they’ve hidden to play with.
Not many parents want to spend time on a lengthy solution, despite any effectiveness. Therapy, as I said before, involves indentifying disorders which I don’t really believe in.
Kids have ways of getting around money problems.
Lessons that should be taught in the first place.
Again, you had good parents who did what they were supposed to.
To most kids I think lecture is synonymous with discussion, because kids just don’t want to talk to their parents these days. And you can shut out someone who’s asking you questions by not answering and being stubborn.
I see lecturing, discussion, open dialogue, or whatever the term for it is, as a solution, but I think it should be done at an impressionable age, and I also think its much less effective at a later age.
What if your kid fights back? When your has his TV, computer, video games or whatever, taken away, and he tries to make a grab for it, what are you going to do? If you sucessfully impose a punishment, what if your kid throws a temper tantrum and starts destroying furniture or something?
What about a serious offense? Your kid comes home at 3 AM drunk, he won’t listen to you, he runs to his room and locks himself in there, whatever lectures/discussions/dialogues are ignored as he walks away…etc.
Dog owners don’t strike their pets because they can’t be made to understand something they did wrong that way. Also, they can attack back if they see you as a predator or something.
You’re assuming your child is willing to listen, willing to accept everything you say, willing to accept punishment, etc. Doesn’t happen all the time.
I grew up in a competitive sport, and I am utterly convinced that a sense of responsibilty to yourself and others comes from something being asked of you and you living up to that expectation.
I think the whole tv and computer in the room thing is much more indicative of where the problem (children becoming lazy, complacent, violent, and generally ‘corrupt’) comes from: parental laziness. Put them up in their rooms and give 'em what they want, as long as they don’t bother me or make too much noise, ‘cause I’ve had a hard day at work. Would I take the television out of my daughter’s room if she deserved a negative consequence for an act inapproprite for her age (or inappropriate in general)? Hell, she doesn’t have one in there in the first place, but I’d haul the thing out of the house and rip out the cable if that’s the only thing that would show her that what she did has a consequence, even if I happen to like watching TV. Her education is more important than my boob-tube time. Parents don’t want the trouble that sort of parenting implies, it makes too much of a demand on their time and energy. Some of my daughter’s friends’ parents question my decision to not allow my daughter to go to their house if no adult is home, and SHE’S ONLY 8!
When my grades dipped because I was fudging school, my parents threatened to take away the one thing I loved, which was the team I was on. My grades went waaaaaaay up after that, and today I thank them for it. That’s the kind of parenting that seems to be disappearing today.
My husband and I also received and used ‘the look’ : the look means worse will follow (no phone privileges, no tv, no gameboy, whatever the kid likes). In society, when you do things you aren’t supposed to, there’s (supposed to be) a negative consequence, a fine, a sentence, a reprimand, the loss of employment, whatever. Kids just aren’t getting this education at home any more, and society is not meant to teach them that.
Parental locks on TV… it freaks me out. The parental lock is supposed to be A PARENT, not some machine or some setting determined by some techie or, worse, some politician. Parenting takes time, time, time and effort, and time, and more effort. Locking your kid away in his room with toys and tv is not parenting. But conversely, spanking doesn’t jibe with me either.
Whew! And I’m supposed to be progressive and liberal?
