Reading about the Tecaxic-Calixtlahuaca head which some claim is Roman and evidence of pre-Columbian trans-Atlantic contact.
Putting aside the claim itself, how probable is it that a ship from classical antiquity could have made the journey across the Atlantic? Assuming they’ve got adequate motivation. Was there any seafaring peoples back then who could have made the trip?
Let’s also give them a map, sextant and some star charts and what have you so navigation isn’t a problem. Would they be able to manage it with navigation problems ruled out or is it the ships themselves that would fail? Or the provisions? Whatdya reckon?
One way? Maybe. Round trip? No way in Hades. Maybe a trading ship loaded with foodstuffs got caught in some storms while attempting to reach Britannia and was swept out into the current, and maybe the ship stayed intact and maybe the crew survived, but contact to the point of cultural influence? Pass me the bong, dude. You’ve had enough.
A trireme? No way. Doesn’t have the deep-sea capability or the supply storage to make the trip.
Interesting link. I would have thought they could have traced the origins of the material. And discovered where it may have come from. That would shorten the list of theories. I am going with #1. It was a prank. And a good one!
Continuing with the trans-Atlantic journey, I have heard of them using turquoise canisters along the ship. They would filter the salt water into fresh water. That would solve the fresh water issue on the journey. This was mentioned by a friend. I didn’t see a source.
Thor Heyerdahl proved that this sort of thing is possible by doing it. But that doesn’t prove that it happened in antiquity. As I understand it, ancient people avoided sailing straight out into the ocean, preferring to hug the coastlines for safety. Without the knowledge that there is another continent out there, you’d be a fool to just strike out for the horizon.
I believe the trip has also been made in coracles, to “verify” the legends of St. Brendan reaching the New World. And I put “verify” in quotes because of course it doesn’t prove that he actually did it, just that he theoretically could have.
There’s some evidence that Polynesians did the reverse of what Heyerdahl suggested and made precolumbian contact with South America. In my opinion, it’s not terribly strong evidence, but you can read for yourself:
I’m sure that back then their were sailors that would wonder just what was over the western horizon? Maybe they were brave enough to say try to go 3-4 days sailing west before turning back.
IIRC Heyerdahl’s Ra Expedition reed boat from the Nile actually waterlogged and fell apart just short of the West Indies. OTOH, he did give himself a handicap by starting with a Nile boat, perhaps something by Phoenicians might be better - but again, in those Good Old Days, sailors were not know for heading off for weeks into the blue; most sailing - Mediterranean, North Sea and Baltic - was coast to coast. You had to try to miss land beyond a few days. Perhaps the most adventurous and daring might be the Roman/Egyptian trade to India, but we don’t really know what route they took - open ocean dead reckoning or coast hugging. Certainly it’s unlikely they would have loaded 3 months’ supplies or water on board so the issue of simple survival would be the more urgent.
Perhaps the only groups that might qualify for regular extended open water trips would be the Vikings and the Polynesians, more into the middle ages.
Only if they’re within your own cultural boundaries. You used to be able to sail galleys/triremes into ocean tiles owned by civ’s you have open borders with, but for some silly reason that got patched out.
It’s thirty years and change since I last read Heyerdahl’s book, but he made a mistake when he built Ra and left out something that he thought was purely cosmetic and that turned out to actually be structural. He was determined enough to correct this with Ra II and that successfully made the crossing.
Tim Severin made The Brendan Voyage–but it took the Northern route. The one the Vikings learned from the Irish!
Didn’t Oscar Wilde say that the New World had been discovered several times–but it had always been hushed up?
The fabulous land of Hy Brasil arose every morning from the waves, out in the Atlantic–then sank at night. The story went that, if someone managed to kindle a fire, the land would remain unsunk.
Christopher Columbus kindled the fire. (No, he didn’t land in Brazil!) Because it was time…
(Surely a ship could have made it one-way. The survivors might have been killed. Or adopted by the locals. Regular two-way traffic was more difficult.)
The Indian Ocean was crossed in ancient times and we know that Tahiti and Hawaii had (at least initially) regular traffic, which is about the same distance as from the Canery Islands to the Caribbean.
So trans oceanic trips can be made by civilisations…just not the ones of the Eastern Atlantic. Until the 15th century.
Well, now, don’t be so dismissive. It’s generally accepted that monkees rafted over from Africa to South America, and their vessels were decidedly primitive.
Part of the problem is the intention, not the technology.
Polynesians made amazing ocean voyages - but they were used to island-hopping, and that made them used to the notion of looking for more islands out of sight of land.
The civilizations of the ancient Western world, in contrast, were centred on the Med - they used ships for cargo and war, all to places they knew full well existed. They did also use ships for exploration - Heroditous relates a credible story of Phonecians exploring the coastline of Africa - but again, they did so without losing sight of land. Deep-sea voyaging simply to explore was pretty well unknown.
I suppose a ship may have been blown off shore while voyaging outside the Med (say a Carthagenian ship going to Britain for tin), but if so, they would be unlikely to have sufficient supplies - particularly water - to survive the journey.
Forget about a trireme doing it, of course - they couldn’t last more than a couple of days without landing for water - they were built for war, not exploration, and were incredibly crew-heavy. A trading ship with a small crew to cargo ratio, perhaps - but unlikely.
More likely would be an East Asian trade ship - they were more used to long distance oceanic travel. But crossing the Pacific, except in the far north, was a harder proposition.
Oh, absolutely. Exploring for the heck of it is quite rare and invariably when its done, usually bankrolled by entities who have experienced the benefits that come with it and they hope that some profit might eventually be made from the discoveries.
I think the MH370 incident illustrated aptly, that peoples concentrations are on trade routes, places off the beaten path get little attention.
If you are a Roman, your trade routes are in the Med, the Arabian Peninsula, and the Indian Coast. All those are reachable by never leaving sight of land (Although Roman ships did make the 2500 KM long journey sea journey to India so, it not like they completely did not know how to do ocean sailing).
Oceanic sailing could be done as you say, but must have seemed incredibly dangerous.
The profits from the India trade were so enormous (and the winds so predictable) that the risks were ‘worth it’. It is hard to imagine anyone deliberately setting out into the open Atlantic just on the off-chance of profit from exploration - unless, like Columbus, they were fooled into thinking they could reach ‘the Indies’ that way.
On another note, I remember reading somewhere a fleeting reference to someone from what is now China reaching classical Rome, via the trade routes through India (they must have been brave, lucky, and nuts to attempt it). That would truly have been a bizzare experience, though one doubts that making it back was all that likely. Can’t remember where I read that though.
I hope this isn’t a hijack, but would the “flat earth” idea have played a role too–as in they didn’t want to sail off the edge? I know the notion of a round earth was commonplace well before Columbus, but my memory is vague on who knew what when.
