I have nothing scientific to add to this, other than my general viewpoint (based on exacting clinical review such as watching episodes of Nature and going to the zoo) that baboons are somehow different than tiger. Tigers seem to be slightly dumber “normal” predators. They appear to attack like any other animal trying to kill prey.
Baboons, on the other hand, just seem like really cunning vicious little fuckers that will pluck out your eyes and shit in the holes. For some strange reason I can’t completely elaborate on, I’d probably rather try to figure out how to get away from an angry tiger than an angry baboon.
I’ve been turning this one over in my mind for the last few days, curse you all…
I can’t see wanting to grapple or attempt any kind of submission hold on the baboon; I kind of see this as attempting to submit a superhumanly strong, deranged midget with knives where his fingers, toes, and teeth should be. As far as striking, some of the hardest kickers in the world, like Bill “Superfoot” Wallace, have roundhouses clocked a little over 60 mph. This would be like getting hit by a foot-sized car, or being beaned hard in the head, body, or throat with a well thrown baseball. Well placed, this would stop a baboon in its tracks or kill it.
The key to this, of course, is “well placed.” A human who closes the gap quickly on another human and gets inside of a roundhouse will be in range to a potentially devastating knee strike in a clinch, but a baboon who closes the gap quickly (and I bet he closes very quickly) will be on you like…well, a crazed baboon. Having seen a stuffed male baboon posed in an aggressive posture and baring its fangs…hoo boy. Maybe a very well trained martial artist could stand a chance if he was very skilled and very, very lucky, or one of us mere mortals could if we were very, very, very lucky, but I would suspect the vast majority of human-baboon cage matches would be very baboon heavy in the winner’s circle.
All this is assuming, probably unrealistically, that the baboon is hell bent on nothing less than total destruction and can’t be cowed, scared off, or spooked from a superficial injury or posturing. An anthopology professor once told me about a baboon staring down his own reflection in his Volkswagon hubcap. When the baboon finally bared his teeth, he saw the reflection baboon baring his and screamed and ran off.
As I’ve probably alluded to before, I think your martial artist would have to be well trained at fighting baboons, not people, for it to him a whole lot of good. There’s a lot more to successfully delivering that fabled roundhouse than simply kicking your opponent in the head, and this “other stuff” may not work on a baboon. The first thing the baboon’s going to do when he see’s that foot coming is bite it.
I’ve seen baboons fight on PBS, and I’ve seen televised fights of all kinds. No way could a man react quickly enough to protect himself. The baboons simply don’t fight fair.
Sorry, Jet Lee, you’re going down.
A really basic question: would the man be clothed or naked? Could he wear shoes? If so, what kind – sneakers? (Or steel-toed work boots? )
I can see pros and cons with the naked approach. Con: the man will feel really vulnerable, and will be more vulnerable than if clothed. (He may also have a weird feeling like he’s having a nightmare, but that’s another thing altogether.) He would be in big trouble if the baboon homed in on his groin.
OTOH, if the man was well-hung (or perhaps obviously aroused), the baboon might be intimidated or frightened off for that very reason!
Personally, I feel that the fight would only be fair if the man was clothed and shod (but ixnay on the construction boots), because that “unnatural” state has become second nature to us.
Didn’t the OP say the fight was out in the open savanna? Well, to my mind that changes things. I’m a 180lb male, 42 and trained in martial arts…and at least when I visited Africa last time and looked out over an open savanna there were all kinds of things I could use for a weapon. I think a human male who is smart enough to reach for a large rock and a sturdy stick would have at least an even chance against a baboon. Unless the baboon is totally out of control with rage (i.e. you put it on something or its defending its young or something similar) I seriously doubt even a male would stand up to a well thrown rock to the head and a few love taps with a sturdy stick.
Now, if you are insisting that the human male is not allowed to use his brain, not allowed to pick up weapons of oppertunity, or that you’ve prepared your deathmatch ground so that its only dirt…thats another (and uninterestingly unrealistic) matter. Why not put then in a cage together in that case? If so, then I still think the human would have a fighting chance if he was well trained and in top shape…and very lucky.
Still, in the cage match my money would probably be on the baboon.
You greatly overestimate the power of a roundhouse kick. Have you ever seen Wallace kill someone with a kick? I haven’t.
60 mph isn’t that fast, and the foot flexes when it hits you. I’ve fought in full-contact karate matches, and I’ve been kicked pretty hard. I’ve also landed some pretty powerful roundhouse kicks. At one time, I was known for them. I know what they can do, and what they can’t do is stop a charging baboon in its tracks.
A fastball could kill you if it hit you in the right spot, and that’s very rare, but a fastball is going close to 100 mph, and there’s a huge difference between 60 and 90. Good softball pitchers can throw a softball 75 mph, and it’s a lot bigger than a baseball.
Oh, and let’s see you land a roundhouse to the head of a maniacal charging beast coming at you at 20 mph.
Martial Arts in general are overrated. I’ve seen plenty of black belts get their butts kicked by streetfighters. In a street fight, who wins is the guy who’s the meanest, typically. It’s one thing to spar in a ring, even full contact, where everything is controlled and everyone is rational. It’s quite another to try to fight someone who is charging at you with a bottle, screaming at the top of his lungs, and who will simply get madder if you hit him. And try using your fancy moves when some maniac is biting your nose and scratching your eyes while screaming in your face.
And a crazed human has NOTHING on a rampaging baboon for sheer wet-your-pants terror.
I think this whole question of who would win is simply obvious. A 90 lb baboon is a killing machine. Humans are not - even trained ones. We can’t deal with the absolute level of ferociousness and the big teeth and claws and the snarling and the glavin. That’s why a 70 lb German Shepherd can bring down a 200 lb criminal, and a large baboon would eat a German Shepherd for lunch and ask for seconds.
There is one way you could ‘win’, I suppose, and that would be to hit the baboon hard enough to make it decide that there was easier pickin’s in the jungle. But the question here involves a fight to the death, and the human’s gonna die.
I hate to seem like I’m disagreeing with you; if you read the rest of my post we’re basically saying the same thing except on that one point. Respectfully, though, I think you’re underestimating what the human body can do with a well placed and lucky kick or sucker punch. Remember “the Punch” that Kermit Washington threw at Rudy Tomjanovich in the 1977 NBA season? Tomjanovich was running full bore down court and caught a full punch directly in the face from Washington so hard that an attending surgeon said his injuries were consistent with someone thrown face first through a car windshield at 50 miles per hour. Most of the bones in his face were destroyed, his cranial fractures were so severe that the upper and lower portions of his skull were disjoined from one another, spinal fluid was leaking into his mouth and nose, and on and on quite literally ad nauseum. His injuries from that single punch were massive, disfiguring, and very nearly killed him. So yes, although it’s supremely unlikely, if that longshot lucky punch or roundhouse connects, it could kill a baboon, or me or you.
In one of his many books, animal catcher Frank Buck (On Jungle Trails, Fang and Claw, Bring 'em Back Alive – I think it was in the last of these) claimed that he was trying to put a collar over the head of an orangutan on board ship. One of his helpers had one rm and a boastful sailor had the other. As Buck got closer, the sailor lost his grip and the orang charged him. Buck says that he waded in close and gave th orangutan a sharp uppercut “with all of his beef behind it.” The orang went down, unconscious.
Assuming that Buck was accurate and on the level, this eems to show that a swift punch (or kick) from a human could bring down a large ape. But you don’t get much of a chance. As Buck noted, the ape would’ve hugged him and bit him over and over if he got the chance.
So, it has taken us 12 years to answer that an adult male could probably take on a smaller species of babboon, say at about 45 pounds. Now, 8 years later, are we still set on the consensus that an adult male babboon, say about 90 pounds, could reliably take on an average human?
Does the average human get a spear, mace, club or, say, a gun? If not (i.e. if no weapons are allowed to the human) then it’s pretty much a no brainer…the average human is going to get their ass kicked, assuming the baboon if feeling froggy. Give that average human a weapon, or time to craft one, though, and it would be a different story.
To paraphrase from Dirty Harry…did I fire only 5 shots or 6, Mr Baboon? What you have to ask yourself my hirsute friend is…are you feeling lucky (well, that and what does ‘5 shots or 6’ even mean plus…what are these ‘shot’ thingies you are talking about)? Well punk…ARE YOU??
Google Travis the chimp, Charla Nash, and Sandra Herold. Multimedia Nash’s face and Herold’s 911 call for help, perhaps the most disturbing one you’ve ever heard.
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If not (i.e. if no weapons are allowed to the human) then it’s pretty much a no brainer…the average human is going to get their ass kicked, assuming the baboon if feeling froggy. Give that average human a weapon, or time to craft one, though, and it would be a different story.