A silly argument. The Republicans had control and they really, really like the idea of the government privatizing things. The fact that Medicare Advantage is a private project that runs with government money made they happy, the fact is though, it wastes money. It provides no better results and costs more, so cutting it is the right thing to do.
I’ve shown you above and before in this very thread where it is you who don’t understand the issues. Please respond to that if you get a chance.
It is. It is done in three dozen other countries. It is done for less cost, with better results and more of the population covered. We waste a ton of money with our system. This is a fact, and you really should face facts.
I notice you haven’t responded to previous questions. Why is that?
I’ve been paying attention to both sides. Both have a religious ferver about their positions and are unlikely to move (much like this board). I think it is awful to pray for the death of anyone (except of course when they whacked that Neanderthal Powell last night in Jarratt… I even flickered and dimmed my lights here in Northern Va at 9p :D).
I’m guessing you’re liberal (excuse me, progressive) and just see the other side as wrong/emotional as a way to invalidate their pretty reasonable positions; a position held by more Americans than yours. But not all conservatives are just emotion, just as not all Dems are; just the ones you want to demonize to validate your viewpoint as the reasonable one.
For me it isn’t necessarily about ideology although some ideological concerns may rear up in my pros/cons list.
It would take me believing in the government (?), it would take me believing that they are the right (only) ones capable of making this dynamic work, and it would take a lot more transparency than has been shown so far (in order for me to make that informed decision.
You are right about one thing: The right tries to ram things (ideas, philosophies et al) down the throats of the general populace but then again, so does the left.
Where is the promised transparency and when exactly does it start? This bill (being a watered down version) is a far cry from what the extreme left wants but it has nothing that the right wants as can be evidenced by the fact that none of them will vote for it. What I want is probably what most centrists want. An end to partisan bills and a focus on coming to a consensus on what is best for America with a combination of ideas (from both parties)
The way they are trying to get this bill passed just shrieks to me of partisanship. I don’t care that it has been done before (maybe I benefit from it or maybe I didn’t) To be frank, I didn’t much follow politics back in my 20’s, I just figured I was unimportant and it wasn’t until I had kids that I started realizing that EVERYTHING the government does has far reaching capabilities.
I want a better America for my kids than I have. That means I don’t want them footing the bill because the fat asses in Congress make them do so.
LOL. I’d chastise you for not reading your own links, but I’ll chalk that up to a quickie Google to get something, anything, to try to bolster your ridiculous arguments. This guy Nate says he doesn’t like the poll because
a) it was done by mail. You kidding me?
b) one of the poll sentences was a run-on. Again… what?
c) they missed the McCain youth vote numbers… OK, they got one wrong. BFD
d) the survey wasn’t totally complete. Oh, I’m sure those stragglers will drastically change the 45% considering retirement :rolleyes:
e) no disclosure about methodology. In other words, they may have only sought out doctors on some list that were already considering retiring, or cross-matched doctors with some GOP donor list. That’s the one point I can get behind… if you can find a better poll to cite or show proof that it was clearly rigged, and drastically rigged (that’s on you, I already put up a poll). If not, well, we’ll go with what we have.
If you still can’t understand this, I’m afraid I can’t help you. You are grasping at straws to deny what most people see as terribly obvious.
Do you honestly not get Bricker’s point? Do you not understand that we don’t have infinite resources, for anything (including healthcare)? Even though elucidator is wrong about most things (as he is in this thread), at least he seems to get the concept here of a line to be drawn.
Life isn’t priceless. If it were, the speed limit would be 5 mph, nationwide. We must balance the need to function as a society with what we can do to help save lives.
a) is pretty important. Was the return address prominently displayed on the envelope? Sort of thing that ensures that doctors who are favorably inclined to positions they find in Investor’s are likely to open the envelope and answer the survey, radical progressive doctors will most likely chuck it.
b) not that it was “run on” but that it has a less than objective tone. “Do you really, really believe that magic fairies will fly out of Obamas ass and fix everything? Seriously?” Scrupulous pollsters avoid that sort of thing.
c) well, yeah, they were dead wrong. Maybe they’re not very good at this sort of thing, as evidenced by a) and b)
d) well, it wasn’t, was it? Sort of thing really professional pollsters simply don’t do.
e) reliable pollsters always but always put their methodology out in front where it can be inspected. Otherwise, they invite derision. Which they got. And deserved.
We have enough. In some hypothetical fairyland, maybe there’s no money. As it is, we have lots; rich people just don’t wanna give it up. How many people’s healthcare could Bill Gates’ money cover? A few million I suspect.
Raise taxes back to where they oughta be, over 50% for people making above median income, and the problem is solved.
eluc, I agree that it wasn’t the best survey ever conducted, in the history of the world. But 1376 doctors, chosen randomly throughout the country, is a pretty big N. And 45% considering retirement, if this passes, is a massive number. You and Lobo seem to want to blow that off.
Let’s say that you’re right (and you’re not, but let’s just pretend). What’s the actual number? 35% 30% Hell, 25% is whopping 200,000 doctors. You seem to want to completely dismiss this.
The point is this: There will be massive unintended consequences as a result of passing this bill, assuming it passes. You know it, and I know it. And most people are actually happy with their insurance coverage and healthcare choices, as I already proved. Those in favor of this bill don’t respond to that, because, well, there is no reasonable excuse for messing with that. Unless you have an emotional drive to get socialized healthcare, as per earlier discussion.
You may be right, but that does not mean it is a net positive for the country, or the world.
Then again, if your side can swing legalization of marijuana, my side will be a lot more mellow about our other disagreements. So y’all get busy with that.
A bad poll is a bad poll. Your numbers are meaningless.
A bad poll is a bad poll. Your numbers are meaningless.
You do not know it. You are assuming it.
I demolished your argument in my post above. But you haven’t addressed it yet. Why is that? Don’t you think a good debater should address when people show his arguments are wrong? Why don’t you do that?
You are the one with the emotional drive. You haven’t got facts to back you up, so you are repeating fantasies.
No more comments about how the “other side” is too stupid or emotional or easily led or whatever. It is rather stupid as a discussion point and simply encourages others, (both companions and opponents) to wade in with their own silly claims.
If someone wants to debate that topic separately, (preferably in the Pit, more preferably on some other message board, and most preferably on some school playground), open a separate thread to do so–and bring serious facts, because if it is going to be more silly claims based on cherrypicked quotes, I will close it.
The bill is cutting Medicare Advantage, not Medicare. Do you appreciate that there is a difference? They are trying to pass the bill right now. Currently, the plan is to ramp it down over time I think.
Your story, and you’re sticking to it, is that the entire poll is completely incorrect and can be completely ignored, and NO doctors will retire and therefore reduce healthcare access to millions of Americans once this bill passes.
Sorry, you have spouted a lot of (gibberish) so I can’t follow what you claim ‘demolished’ my point. Please help me to understand your labyrinthine logic by reposting.
The Kaiser Health Foundation survey sez: