Could California vote to join Mexico?

I’ve heard it said that there are certain Mexican, political parties with the goal of eventually voting much of the American SW back to Mexico. The “strategy” is supposedly to get enough immigrants with the right to vote in those states to support such a proposition. Let’s say that they somehow managed to do this. Would the Federal Government be bound to recognize any such sucession? In today’s political environment I can’t imagine force being used to compel a state that voted for sucession, through a legitimate democratic process to disregard such a vote. Along the same lines there is a movement within the Libertarian party to get enough supporters to move to New Hampshire with the goal being to “overwhelm” the locals and vote for a Libertarian style government. Could this work?

Didn’t something like this happen in the 1800’s. I beleive that the US government did not let them go.

Wasn’t the secession issue settled when the Union won the Civil War?

Plus the fact that in the U.S. the majority doesn’t have unlimited power, and can’t vote away the rights of everyone else. If people were forced to relinquish their U.S. citizenship and become Mexican citizens, I’d definitely consider this a violation of their rights.

If the majority of people in a state would rather be citizens of Mexico, no one’s stopping them from moving there.

California Constitution, Article 3 section 1:

Regardless of what the federal government might have to say about secession (and generally the federal government says no), the state could not vote to secede without first amending the state constitution to remove this section.

There may be a few crank outsiders in Mexico who honestly think this is a good idea, but certainly neither of the major parties. And it obviously wouldn’t work. Why would someone who’s born in Mexico move to the United States just to turn around and try to get part of the United States transferred back to Mexico? If they want to live in a poorer country with a more corrupt government, a lousier education system, and a stagnant economy, why wouldn’t they just stay in Mexico to begin with? It doesn’t make any sense.

Well that’s the thing, if California joined Mexico then the economy of California would join Mexico. During the CA recall I seem to recall that California was pegged as like the 4th larget economy in the world or something. Of course there would be segments of that economy that would leave the state if it left the US but even so absorption of California and its resources would be an enormous boost to the Mexican economy.

Californians can of course vite to become part of Mexico. In fact, I invite them to do so right in this thread.

Will their vote count in any effective way? No.

I live along the border, and outside of the liberal arts departments of a couple of state colleges, I have never heard anyone seriously advocate this.

I think the prospects for a several northern Mexican states splitting away from Mexico and petitioning to join the United States is more likely (not that there is any movement to do such a thing of course).

California is acquiring more financial burden due to illegal immigration and by the time (IF it EVER happens) it gets voted into Mexico, it will be just as poor as it’s neighboring mexican states, due to the overwhelming population of the illegals (and subsequent generations) not paying for the services that current California taxpayers provide.

I remember (back in the '80s) writing a college paper about annexing Mexico to the U.S. instead of California joining Mexico. I figured if they were all trying to come here, let’s just bring our country to them instead and save them the hassle. We can bring our government to them, our jobs to them, our money to them. The U.S. would then have a smaller border, large oil reserves, etc.

I wonder if there was a vote in Mexico today, would the mexicans vote to join the United States and adopt our government instead of vice-versa (California to Mexico).

I have lived in Southern California for over 10 years and this is the first I have heard of this.

Indeed, the proposition that any serious Mexican politician is advancing such a strategy seems extremely far fetched to me. IMHO, this is a rumor being put forth as a scare tactic by people with an anti-Mexican agenda.

As to your specific question, could they do it, the answer is they could not legally do this. The United States Constitution is the Supreme law of the land, and the Constitution has no provision for a state to secede. This is not to say that there are not cranks out there willing to argue the point endlessly (the constitution is itself illegal, etc.) just as there are cranks who like to argue endlessly (and just as futiley) that they don’t have to pay federal income tax.

Just as there are cranks out there making specious arguments for

I have to ask…what grade did you get?

I remember now where the genesis of this question came from in my mind. It was during the California govenor’s race when it was discovered that Cruz Bustamante (one of the candidates) had links in college to a group called MECHa, which supposedly advocated California, and other SW states leaving the United States and “rejoining” Mexico. According to this article http://www.washtimes.com/national/20030912-120115-9639r.htm it was also an issue for Antonia Villaraigosa during the Los Angeles mayoral race.

The proposal is considered on the fringe both in the USM and among the Mexican-ancestry community in the USA. If anything, they’re given more importance than is due by causing overreaction among the Anglo right-wing. Most believers in the “Aztlán” theory I’ve actually met seem to rather wish to have the border states become culturally-Mexican states but still OF the USA.

Actually I quite agree. The reunification of Germany starting back in 1989 was kind of sucky for them for a while, but they recovered spectacularly. In a way, the annexation of Mexico by the United States would probably be similar. I say we start with Colima (nice beaches, not too touristy) and Jaliso (tequila).

It’s a lot easier to defend the border with Belize than with all of Mexico. Plus in Belize, they speak English, so they’d probably be good neighbors. Yeah, yeah, there are other neighbors too.

But… the Mexicans themselves would never go for it. They’re more nationalist than Canadians, who due to their self-esteem issues are even more nationalist than we are in the United States. Cuba’s recently accused Mexico of not having a border with us. The liberal PRI and PRD parties are always ragging on Fox for trying to sell out to the Americans. Privatizing PEMEX (oil) just won’t work due to surrendering to foreign (i.e., “U.S.”) interests.

In short, I think voting for an annexation is out – we just need to invade.

Yeah, I acknowledge that if California could suddenly be amputated from the United States and attached to Mexico, it would be a big boost to the Mexican economy, even after the high cost of integrating two different finanical systems, two different tax systems, two different sets of regulations on everything, etc… But the theory is that California voters are somehow going to vote their way out of the U. S. and into Mexico. So then the obvious question becomes, why on Earth would anyone who’s not insane want to abandon the wealthiest country in the world to join up with a country that’s notorious for massive corruption, sketchy law enforcement, periodic bouts with devastating inflation and interest rates, no bond market, a poorly regulated financial sector, and a much lower standard of living than what even poor Californians have? No matter how such a bizarre scenario played out, a lot of money would get sucked out of California, little would come back in, and parts of the state’s economic structure would collapse. Who would want that?

Jesus, not like I said it was a good idea or anything…

Well if I was the President of Mexico and this was my goal here would be a possible plan:

  1. I would start a program where any one wishing to emigrate to the United States could participate. All they would have to do is swear allegance to the “plan” if they ever got the ability to vote.

  2. Participants would get ID cards, and a copy of a criminal history check to help them establish identities in the United States (I would also give them a Mexican Driver’s License). I would also establish a covert network of specialists who could produce various fake ID’s necessary to get jobs and function in the United States.

  3. Participants would receive free transportation to the border and a little money to help them get started (maybe $100.00 US dollars or more if I could find room in the budget).

  4. Participants would be promised a thousand acres of prime real estate after California was returned to its rightful owner. Furthermore, they would be promised eternal freedom from taxation for themselves and their heirs. I would also promise free twenty four hour brothels stocked with beautiful women, once the “plan” was successfully enacted. The women would be promised the furture power to have their husbands castrated if they ever caught them cheating.

  5. Participants would be required to “deny” that any such plan existed.

  6. As President I would deny that any such plan existed. If confronted with evidence to the contrary I would suggest that my “international traveller initiative” program existed solely for the purposes of fostering better cross border relations, and facilitating the better integration of our economies for the betterment of all. Then I would point out how it was the United States and it’s huge appetite for drugs which was the real issue, not the fantasies of journalists.

  7. Any Journalists that did report on this story to any great extent would have accidents.

  8. I would lobby the American President for guest worker programs to further facilitate increased emigration from Mexico to the United States.

  9. I would publish a “free magazine” presenting my perspective on various issues that would be sent to program participants each month (or failing addresses copies would be made available in heavily Hispanic areas). We would have articles such as “The importance persuading your American allies of the importance of the right to vote.” In this way I would attempt to create pressure on American politicians to support amenesty for illegal immigrants, and eventually full resident and citizenship status.

  10. At the same time I would allow and promote drug trafficking especially to the American SW, in an attempt to persuade American citizens living in those areas to move. Any revenues generated from such drug trafficking would be funneled back into the program (after I took my cut of course).

  11. I would bribe as many American politicians as possible to ignore this situation. Those that couldn’t be bribed would be targeted as racist and anti-Hispanic. I would probably form several well funded PAC’s in the United States to support this process.

Make me the President of Mexico, give me the mandate, and I will return California to Mexico within twenty years.

I almost forgot, I would form an elite squad of the most beautiful, intelligent, prostitutes (both men and women) who could be found in all of Mexico. These would be sent to the United States with the mission of seducing as many US politicians as possible. Of course secret video tape would be made for the purposes of blackmail in the event I needed their support on key issues. In fact, I would probably fund covert brothels, and drug houses in areas likely to attract important figures/politicians or otherwise. Of course tapes would be made of all activity for possible later use.

:::backs slowly out of the thread, nodding and smiling so as not to arouse the crazy person:::

When Ms. Wallace (wife of first teratorial governor ) saw New Mexico for the first time, She said we should have another war with them and make them take it back.


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