Could Modest Mouse sue Lupe Fiasco?

Lupe Fiasco has a song called “The Show Goes On” that takes its entire melody from “Float On” by Modest Mouse. To my ear, it’s a much more obvious plagiarism than that of the George Harrison case where he was successfully sued by The Chiffons for similarities between his “My Sweet Lord” and their “He’s So Fine”.

“The Show Goes On”

“Float On”

Could Modest Mouse sue Lupe? What about the use of Pachelbel’s bass line - is that public domain now?

I hear a sample of the Modest Mouse song in there, so most likely he had clearance.

ETA: As for the Pachelbel bits, I’m pretty sure most Baroque and Classical compositions are public domain by now. As long as it was an original performance, he’s probably in the clear - if he sampled an existing recording, he’d need to pay whoever owns the rights to said recording.

“Stealing” songs like this is the basis of seemingly about 3/4 of mainstream hip-hop, so record label has probably covered its basis legally.

I think all they have to do is give a writer credit to the writer of “Float On.”

Somebody should, but not over this.

They also have to pay money to sample the Modest Mouse performance, or use the composition if there is no actual sample.

I’m just glad I’m not going crazy. I hear the Lupe song at the ballpark all the time and keep telling my friend it’s a Modest Mouse rip-off, but he doesn’t know what I’m talking about…

It’s not a ripoff. Much of hip hop is based on using music or beats from other songs to create one’s own. Oftentimes, multiple songs are sampled in the same song. It’s a whole different type of art, but requires no less talent. Think of it as a “variation on a theme”, commonly used in classical music. In hip hop, it’s the lyrics that usually more valued than the music anyway, while the opposite is true for rock.

He doesn’t just borrow the beat and melody, though, even the initial lyrics (“Alright, already”) are borrowed.

Either way, my comment was more along the lines of “I know that song…” with my friend replying “???”. I thought I was going crazy… then again, he didn’t recognize Werewolves of London in that Kid Rock abomination, so maybe his ears are just bad.

Lupe Fiasco does a lot of sampling, so I’m sure they have all the legalities in order. Here’s the specific example you mention. In that same track, they also sample Lil Wayne.

That’s a neat site for exploring the issue of sampling.

I was with you up until the bolded part. Classical “variations” (the most popular example being the Goldberg Variations by JS Bach) are rooted in music theory and structure, with each variation being essentially a similar but unique work with a completely different progression, tempo and melody (think “fractals”). Rap “variations” are rooted in lazy hook writing (think “poor photocopy”). It’s a long way from using 20 snippets of 5 songs to make a new work completely different in tone and structure (see Paul’s Boutique, or Danger Mouse’s Grey Album) to lifting the hook completely wholesale from another song because you couldn’t be bothered to bang away on a piano for a few minutes to figure out something new.

And don’t get me started on the quality of lyrical content in most rap music these days - most good rock music is much more focused on lyrical content than rap is.

‘Talent’ was probably too subjective of a word to use there. What I meant is that it’s no easier to achieve success or gain critical acclaim in rap relative to any other genre.

They don’t sound all that similar to me. If not for the “all right, all ready” reminding me of “Float On” I don’t think I would have picked up on the music sounding similar myself.

Agreed. For every lame rap act, there’s a lame rock counterpart like Buckcherry, and for every awesome rock band, there’s an awesome rapper like Kid Cudi.

Sorry, I was perhaps a bit vitriolic in my response - I guess I get a bit bent out of shape at the state of mainstream rap these days. [grumpy old man]In my day, we had Public Enemy, Tribe Called Quest, De La Soul, Boogie Down Productions. What do we have now, the Black-eye Peas, Lupe Fiasco, Flo Rida and Pitbull? ::grumblegrumble::[/grumpy old man]

I kinda like it. Ever notice the similarities between Float On and Sunday, Bloody, Sunday? I don’t think Float On’s a rip or anything but it sounds like it was influenced by the older recording.

No, this song is a ripoff (of this song).

Well, talking about rip offs, I watched a few months back that Hugh Grant movie, music and lyrics, where he sings this oddly familiar song.

Which made me lose all little respect I had for the Mystery Jets. I mean, I could get over their looks, but ripping off a song from a Hugh Grant movie? Too far.

I always thought Lupe Fiasco was one of the more talented contemporary hip-hop artists, but I haven’t heard his latest stuff. Is it really that bad, or are people just bashing him because he’s a rapper in general?

Don’t under-estimate Lupe Fiasco. He is almost legendary to many followers of rap. His wordplay and wit are top notch. He is just now transitioning to a more pop-ish style. But his first album received much critical acclaim.

Because I wasn’t smart enough to post it myself! :smiley:

I must admit, the only other Lupe Fiasco song I’ve heard all the way through is that skateboarding song he released wen he first came up (pause for Google-fu - - - “Kick, Push”) and I didn’t particularly care for it. While it was well put together, it was no “Fight The Power”. Hell, it wasn’t even “I Left My Wallet in El Segundo”.

Now if you’ll excuse me, I’ve got to go yell at some kids on my lawn.

I wouldn’t say Kick Push is his best work. I like this, or thismuch better. I think thisis probably him at his best–honest and trying to be fair, not overly preachy and absolutely rapping his heart out.

I haven’t been impressed with his more recent stuff, though–he still has good flow, I think, but he’s obsessed with how his record company has oppressed him. From what I can tell, they did really screw with him, but it’s getting a bit old. He’s also getting teeth-grittingly preachy sometimes.

However, putting Lupe Fiasco in the same category as the Black Eyed Peas is hilarious, and makes it pretty clear that you haven’t listened to any rap in the last 20 years or so. He’s definitely more in the “conscious” rap category and lyrics are one of his strong points. There was an interesting article a while back when some Old White Guy from the New York Times or something read a book which compiled rap lyrics; he’d never heard any of the songs before. IIRC, Lupe was one of his favorites based purely on lyrics. I don’t think anyone is going to conclude that about any of the other rappers you mentioned.

As for the OP–I would think plagiarism requires that one not acknowledge the debt one owes. Do you really think Lupe Fiasco didn’t think anyone would notice that he sampled Modest Mouse?:confused: He *wanted *people to notice–sampling an indie band is very “fashion forward” of him. I can’t imagine how anyone could *not *realize the songs are connected, actually.

Does your friend hear any similarities between this and this?:o