Could they be here, among us, unnoticed?

Great Debates
1

Funny things happen to your mind when you watch a movie 674 times. Watching “Toy Story” last night with Sapito, I couldn’t help but wonder how [un]likely it would be for an entire culture to be living here among us, unnoticed.

The idea is anything but new. It is a staple of Sci-Fi and Horror. But is it possible at all? How long would it be for someone or a group to decide that they have a better chance if they come out and reveal themselves to us? Or before someone makes a stupid mistake and blows the cover?

What type of culture could pull this off? I guess anything sufficiently alien to us (passing as ants) or disciplined special ops non-reproductive group (Illuminati?) could manage, but an entire society with all its internal variations and struggles sounds like too much of a stretch.

Should society invest in finding and unmasking these?

2

I can think of two arguments that they are not here among us.

1.) If they are among us, they must have technology sufficiently advanced to conceal themselves very well, technology many centuries ahead of our own. But if they had that level of technology, they’d be able to conquer or exterminate us. Plainly they have not done so, therefore they do not exist.

2.) If they are among us, they must be exerting considerable effort to conceal themselves from us. But if that were the case, some of them would occasionally slip up and become visible to us. Since that hasn’t happened, they do not exist.

Of course both of these arguments assume that the fundamental nature of ‘them’ is similar to ours. The first assumes that they must be aggressive and intolerant of others. The second assumes that they are fallible. If they are both pacifistic and perfect, then the argument breaks down.

3

Hmmm… but if they’re mostly pacifist and nearly infallible, all it would take would be to cover up the occasional slip with a bit of anal probing and a mind-wipe.

No, I don’t think they are among us, but there are enough weird things reported in the world to permit that they could be fallible and be here.

4

That’s the Men In Black theory. That the National Enquirer has it right and the two-headed woman did have an octopus baby with the invisible man.

5

Maybe we’re already here, we’ve already taken over and you’re the only one left. We’re keeping you in your natural environment (as far as you can tell) to see how you behave.

6

*tune in next week for the next installment of Zoo Without Bars. *

7

We enjoy seeing lower life forms speculate about us. It’s cute.

8

I think it’s those furry creatures that convince us to feed them, groom them, and pick up their shit.

9

First, this is one of the best thread topic lines ever. It reminds me of Hemingway’s shortest story (warning: very sad):

“For sale: One pair of baby shoes, never worn.”

It’s concise, efficient, & immediately seizes both the mind and the heart. Naturally, a lot of the replies are therefore jokes.

Could they be? Is this possible? Yes. Of course. Because they are entirely unlimited by anything but the most basic physics, and their understanding of those physics could be hundreds of years ahead of ours. If they’re advanced enough to get here, they’re advanced enough that understanding their motives or even communicating with them might be impossible anyway.

The further problem is, where we are now, the answer is…no. There will never be communication between worlds that is not robotic in nature, as far as we know. It’s not so much about “level of technology” as level of understanding; if we had all the resources theoretically possible, we could not break the light barrier, as it stands. The “cosmic speed limit” is depressing but true. Then again, so is our youth and frequent misdirection – species-wise, as Bud Baxter might say. We might just be wrong. That would be nice.

10

Of course they are. They have that special power, the one that makes you invisible when nobody is looking at you. :stuck_out_tongue:

11

Who or what exactly are “they”? Do you mean aliens from outer space? If so, it seems overwhelmingly likely that anything which evolved on a planet orbiting another star would be very unlike us, physically speaking; certainly not just humanoids with odd noses or funny foreheads. To successfully blend in would thus require more than just a floppy hat to conceal one’s pointy ears.

12

a) How many schizophrenics do you know at work, or professionally otherwise?

b) How many of the people you know at work, or professionally otherwise, are schizophrenics and didn’t bother telling you?

c) There’s a lot of us. Do the math: add up the homeless folks you presume to be us + the ones who go nutso in a spectacularly public fashion in which it’s reported that the perp was a schizzy… it’s a way low total compared to what you intuitively know about how many of us are out there, right? Did you think the rest of us were skulking about in caves or something?

d) Maybe you think we should all be “out”. OK, I’m ready if you are. Seriously: how ready are you to have an openly acknowledged schizophrenic as a coworker, neighbor, or representative in Congress?

The only humans whose psychiatric diagnosis, if relevant, gets public attention are those who do violence and wreak havoc. Nice. Do you think Hispanics would like it if the only time the media referenced someone as “Hispanic” was when they were being arrested or had killed themselves or had shot up the subway car? Muslims? Blacks? Jews? Asians?

Tell me about the last time you read about “Arnold Weissmuller, community activist, paranoid schizophrenic, CIO of Argent International, demonstrated Argent’s new wireless communications gadget…”

We are amongst you, and unnoticed as such. Whether receiving and considering ourselves to be benefitting from psychiatric treatment or totally at odds with the psychiatric profession and what we regard as its locked wards & snake oils, most of us are not ready to be perceived the way we think you’d perceive us if you knew we were Them.

And yes, there are pockets of us, collectively sharing rooms in a rented house or employing another one of Us when the opportunity presents itself and the candidate is appropriate. We even have conventions (of more than one sort: the “consumers” have theirs and us “psych patients’ lib front” types have ours).

I could be your loan officer for all you know :slight_smile:

13

I’m reminded of an old short story called Into Your Tent I’ll Creep. In it, the protagonist’s somewhat paranoid and odd friend details his theory about how dogs are actually sentient, and a basically parasitic species that’s using us for their own benefit. The protagonist admits his theory is spooky, but doesn’t buy it. As they leave, a dog suddenly darts out of nowhere, tripping the “crazy” friend, who falls down some stairs and is killed. The dogs stops dead, gives the protagonist a very intense look right in the eyes, and runs off.

14

Anything really. The animated toys from Toy Story, aliens, demons, the blind society from Ernesto Sabato’s “On Heroes and Tombs” (mandatory reading for the paranoid, btw, excellent book). You call it.

I have always been terribly suspicious of ants.

As for my loan officer, zero chance. Between his english level and his computer skills, there is no way he could be a Doper

15

They might last a long time, if they settled here decades ago, in a remote area, kept to themselves, minded their own business, & avoided trouble.

16

They might even be posting in this thread, but they’re not going to admit it, because we were hunted down and slaughtered last time.

17

Hmm, there was a novel (Young Adult?), about such a thing. Could have been a short story, but I am pretty certain it was a novel. Too bad I can’t remember the name of it. (There was two of em, a boy and a girl, IIRC)

18

I remember one in a sci-fi anthology where a guy in a mental institution is convinced that he’s the only real human left and the world around him is just a creation of Them, they are trying to break him or something. He tries to convince his doctor of this to no avail.

The doctor walks out of the room, takes off his mask revealing a blubbery alien face, turns to another alien and says something like “He’s on to us”. The aliens proceed to disassemble the world and start working on a new one.

Creepy.

19

… On Fox.

20

No. Such preposterous speculations are not worth any of our time or resources.

In fact, all speculation along such lines should be strongly discouraged.

Very strongly.

If you know what’s good for you.