I know that sometimes I can have a laisse- faire attitude to certain things that may cause raised eyebrows to others. I can sometimes quite happily operate on an “if it feels good do, it!” approach. If someone later draws my attention to a certain dubious morality in my actions then I will take stock and evaluate it more fully.
An example of this is as follows.
All over Asia its possible to buy good quality imitation goods. When I am returning to work ( currently in Europe) I normally bring a handful of fake Rolex, Panerai, Tag Heuer, or whatever is the flavour of the month, watches back for my colleagues. I may take as well $5 Oakleys or Ray Bans etc.
I give these to the guys with whom I work at the exact same price that I have purchased them, on the understanding that if they break in a month ( never happens) then hard luck.
The copy watches are really very good. They even weigh the same as the originals within a gram or two. The sunglasses are almost indistinguishable from the real deal. ( maybe the lenses are not!)
Now I tended to think ( and not too much) that the guys taking these watches know what they are getting and are not usually in the market for these items had they been genuine. Sunglasses tend to get lost very easily and most I know have their ‘poser’ glasses then their pair that may get left laying along the side of the pool.
However, I do know the Italian government thinks differently. They are currently clamping down on purchasers of fake goods. Big fines to tourists in Venice last year.
I can’t really see what the fuss is about. or am I underthinking this?
Would you buy a $50 Rolex? They are really good copies. The purser on my flight from Dubai complemented me on mine. he nearly fell over when I took it off and presented him with it! ( I did tell him it wasn’t real later and he still wasn’t sure )
So whats the straightdope? Am I hurting the market of Rolex or the fact that people are wearing imitations when they would not buy the original just free advertisement for them?
It hurts the company’s image because you’re diluting the ‘exclusivity’ of their product image. If everyone sees the purser wearing a ‘Rolex’, Mr. Bigshot in firstclass probably wants to take his off and get a Patek Philippe instead.
The Rolex brand becomes worth less to their real target market.
With some of the lower-price brands that are targeted by fakers (at lower prices - Nike, Lacoste, etc), I am put off buying at all because of the uncertainty of getting the real thing. I assume the same risk exists higher up - although people wanting a genuine Rolex won’t be shopping on market stalls for it, they might be buying from a collector or something - it hurts the brand as a whole if people are resistant to shopping for it.
Also, there’s a certain prestige in owning the real thing (doesn’t attract me, personally), but this is tarnished if uncertainty can be cast upon any particular example - Bob’s Rolex is a status symbol if only genuine Rolex is available, but if Bob’s Rolex might be a fake, then Bob himself might not be the hotshot we would like him to be. Obviously Rolex don’t want this, because again, it devalues the brand.
I know for a fact that Rolex defends it’s product very aggressively. I bought a non working Rolex at an estate sale for $200. I took it to a certified Rolex dealer and had it repaired and cleaned, that was another $200. For $400, I had a $1500 watch. I decided I needed the money more than the watch and listed it on eBay. Within an hour of listing it, my auction was pulled and eBay VERO was all over me. I had to provide to both eBay and Rolex proof that the watch was real then my listing was reinstated.
I’d buy a $50 Rolex. I’d like to buy a fake watch, fake high class suit and then buy one of those kit cars (where they put a Mercedes or Ferrari frame on top of a Chevy car) and just screw with people. Fun stuff.
But the only real risk is that it decreases the exclusivity of Rolex. People buy Rolex’s as a form of peacock feathers to show off how much disposable income they have. If the market is flooded with counterfeits, people will switch to a different brand of expensive watch.
On another note, I thought counterfeits were terrible quality. I know electronic knock offs still tend to be.
All companies and individuals have the right to protect their intellectual property. Expecting governments to enforce the protection of those intellectual property rights is something governments should do to insure sustainability of tax revenues from law abiding companies, etc.
If there is no rule of law, it stifles creativity and innovation for products.
I maybe should have added a poll to this post. “would you buy copies of designer or quality goods” I can see that manufacturers would wish to maintain the aura of exclusivity to their brands. Cranking the price up though should reflect an intrinsic value other than that provided by little more than a name.
A further disincentive to pay the full shop price for certain named desirable goods was evident to me in the big sales here in Italy in the Armani and Prada boutiques after Christmas.
The $10 knockoff clothes are probably made in the same Chinese factories that make the $300 stuff. And they probably use some of the same materials too.
I honestly don’t give a shit about a company’s image, for the most part. Between insane mark-ups and ripping off independent designers, it’s hard to grant them any sympathy. Also, at least when it comes to women’s fashion, there is a theory that many women start off with rip-offs and ‘graduate’ to the genuine thing once they have enough disposable income. So boo hoo.
However, the people working the night shift to produce these goods are living in squalor and with even less regulation over work hours, chemical exposure, etc. than the real brand’s workers. And the links between counterfeit goods and organized crime, including terrorist organizations, is pretty strong.
Sort of relevant article here, about a Chinese watch manufacturer. The article mentions, “Leung was wearing a great hulk of a watch called a Bonja. It’s big in Gulf states, where it retails for about $4,000. Leung told me he’s paid $200 for this model and that leaves him a comfortable margin.” Just to give you an idea of what the markup on luxury products could be, although note that these are not the Swiss watches, which are, I think, entirely mechanical and made by hand.
Personally I have little interest in designer clothes and watches of marque, and I’m rather blasé when it comes to jewelry as well, mostly due to having worked some time in a pawn shop in my youth.
The one thing I learnt about faxe rolexes though, is that in order to make a reliable copy (one that can fool a layman who knows what to look for), the same craftsmanship usually needs to go into the manufacture. So I’d love to buy a fake Rolex which wasn’t being sold as a Rolex.
I do think it’s wrong to make or buy counterfeits, but I also think it’s silly to spend megabucks just to show that you can afford to spend megabucks on something. But it’s your money - spend it as you wish. Just because I don’t need a designer’s logo on my attire or accessories to make a statement, doesn’t mean you can’t indulge yourself that way.
I wear a $10 watch, carry a well-worn $35 purse, and my sunglasses are the clip-ons that came with my glasses. If someone chooses to look down on me because of that, gee whillikers, color me crushed… :rolleyes: Yes, I could afford a much more expensive watch, but the crystal would get just as scratched, and it’d probably wind up plunged under water just as often, so why bother? I just need to know the time, not flaunt my paycheck.
I’ve spent a lot of time in Asia and bought some fake goods, as gifts and for myself. Here’s my reasoning;
I’m not passing them off as real, to the people I give them to, and they were not passed off as real to me on the street.
Capitalists think it’s okay for 12yr olds to work 14hr days for $2 making Nike’s. If those same third world denizens take the construction knowledge learned and reproduce same I say, good for them, shows real entrepreneurial spirit. I’d rather someone in the third world make $5 off those Levi’s I paid $7 for, than padding the enormous profits of western shops by paying $40 back home.
I have really mixed feelings about this. In one conversation about this someone made what I thought was an interesting point.
She said she did not feel that buying a knock off Gucci bag was injuring the Gucci company because she would never ever buy a real, full price Gucci bag. She’s not buying the $30 knock off instead of a $600 “real” one. She’s buying it instead of a different $30 bag.
Yes its undoubtedly true that certain designer labels are produced in low cost asian centres. And its equally true that these centres using the exact same materials merely run more clothes after their contracted batch is finished. I know because I do buy some of this stuff for myself almost directly from the factory door. Like elbows I don’t have any qualms about this and for the same reasons.
I wonder what the value of a Hublot big bang (for example) as opposed to its cost.
But she apparently likes it at least incrementally more than the different $30 bag, which means it is “worth” more to her, which means she should pay more.
It’s a funny thing when ripoff artists denigrate original designs as being “overpriced” and “not worth it” and “anyone could come up with that.”
I don’t buy counterfeit goods… For many of the reasons stated above. Plus, they’re tacky as hell. If you can’t afford the Louis Vuitton bag, find something else you like at a price point you can afford.
Full shop price? Who pays full shop price if they can get it on sale? That would just be silly.
Or maybe they want an excellent quality watch. Or bag. Or whatever.
It’s really hard to take comments like this seriously when your parents wore/have been wearing the same Rolex watch for 30 or 40 years.
I disagree. I bought some Kootenay boots that were originally made by Raichle in factories based in Romania. Mammut has bought the brand and now uses manufacturing plants in China - boy howdy has the quality suffered!
The stitching is noticeably poorer, with lots of dropped stitches and uneven rows (it looks like the stitching was done by someone unfamiliar with working with leather). The leather is most definitely a lower quality and there is a section that looks like the material of the old boots, but when you scratch your nail over it, it’s actually just an applique that’s only cosmetic - basically a textured sticker that looks like the old material.
That’s patently untrue. I have a Movado. The crystal is a man made material that is practically as hard as diamond. I can wear it rock climbing and don’t have to worry about the face getting scratched against the rock face. The crystal has a lifetime guarantee because in the near-impossible event that it does manage to get a scratch, it will be replaced. I can guarantee that knock-offs aren’t using anything like that - it would be far too expensive to manufacture. The knock off faces are probably just regular glass. Sure it will fool a layman who knows what to look for… until you get your first scratch.
My watch is waterfproof up to 200 metres underwater. Good luck getting a knock off to survive an accidental trip through the washing machine.
