I was not expecting this. What’s next?
I don’t recall any complaints on the Dope from Americans about Obama’s tour of Europe and the Middle East (including Israel) before the 2008 election.
Was that comment meant for this thread? Because I don’t see how it relates.
I’m guessing that it’s an attempt at whataboutism.
It’s a failed attempt because, unless there’s evidence he was doing so to gather dirt on his opponent, Obama traveling internationally before an election is not the same thing.
Eh, he’s the guy who claims he doesn’t like Trump but always is the first to defend him. Because fairness, or something.
Out of genuine curiosity, when some like John Oliver who is a British citizen uses his platform on HBO to comment on Trump, isn’t that interfering in the election which is illegal by a foreign entity?
Does anyone know what the legal boundaries are?
I’m not a mod and you all can do what you want but can I respectfully request that we not derail this thread with a bunch of tu quoque arguments?
If anyone wants to discuss Obama or John Oliver it is possible to start their own thread.
I do not believe I am derailing this thread by asking for clarity on the issue.
The article that YOU linked to: “It is illegal for foreign governments or individuals to be involved in American elections, and it is unclear what—if any—direct assistance Saudi Arabia and the Emirates may have provided. But two people familiar with the meetings said that Trump campaign officials did not appear bothered by the idea of cooperation with foreigners.”
You should educate yourself on the differences between individuals who live in the USA as permanent legal resident aliens, and actors for foreign governments who work to influence our elections on a quid pro quo basis.
Permanent legal resident aliens such as John Oliver enjoy all the same freedoms, rights and protections of all American citizens, except the right to vote. Mr. Oliver enjoys the full protection of the First Amendment with respect to free speech. He is breaking no laws to express his opinions.
Those who act on behalf of foreign governments to influence our elections in ways that favor their own governments may attempt to do so, but it is illegal. If we can catch them, we can prosecute them. It is also illegal – and in the view of many, unethical, immoral and traitorous – for Americans who participate in our electoral process to assist those foreign actors to influence our elections in any way.
And surely you understand that accepting a bribe in exchange for doing political favors in a manner that aids a foreign government is illegal as hell. Right?
davidm, I was not expecting this, either. I can’t say I’m surprised, given the utter criminality of the players involved. But I am nonetheless shocked.
I wonder how long Republicans can continue to pretend this is all just hunky-doory-business-as-usual-nothing-to-see-here.
Whataboutism #2.
All that typing and you still did not answer the question.
Actually, he did, you just refuse to accept it.
I’ve seen LAZombie’s posts before and figured it was a futile effort even as I undertook it. I won’t waste any more time or derail davidm’s thread further.
I have a feeling this is going to become a very busy thread just staying on topic.
One of the key issues (among others) are coordination with campaigns. And John Oliver is a permanent resident.
I’m missing what the problem is there.
I read the New York Times article. It didn’t discuss whether this was a new phenomenon in American politics, and I’m fine with that. But I’m coming here to learn some broader context.
American campaign consultants have repeatedly told Israeli candidates to go negative, which sounds like the kind of thing the Times is raising questions about. I recall reading in this book that idea that Peres lost to Netayahu because the former refused American campaign consultant advice to go negative, or something comparable to that.
Really, it might be illegal, but I don’t exactly know why taking advice from foreign consultants is morally worse than taking advice from American consultants.
If the foreigners are government officials, I think that’s worse, but, well, I’m not sure why I think that.
If these foreigner campaign consultants – whether private companies or government officials – had to publicly register, and they actually did, I think that would cover the need. Then I could decide how important this is. It probably would not be the deciding factor in how I voted.
There’s a significant difference between campaign consultants who are citizens of a foreign country and those who are working for a foreign government.
My understanding would be that a campaign consultant, foreign or otherwise, is employed, paid for and/or accounted for by the campaign within whatever expenditure and accounting rules apply.
A foreign actor, government or private, setting up their own campaign outside those accounting rules, but co-ordinating it with a candidate’s campaign, runs the risk of at least the perception that it could be the other way around: that the candidate is employed by them
This has been bubbling up for a while. The “unmasking” craze led by Devin Nunes last year related to Michael Flynn’s meeting with the crown prince of Abu Dhabi.
A foreigner can advise you on how to spend your political money. But they can’t give you any. Likewise, they could suggest you flood Facebook with stuff about Hillary trying to put ricin in Bernie Bed Hair’s tea…but cannot place those ads themselves.
I read the article at MOJO. What were you not expecting?
Are you surprised the Saudis and the UAE decided to play nice when a major party candidate for POTUS stopped by with his hand out? Hasn’t this gone on with both parties for years?
I understand Erik Prince is all kind of dirty but I still haven’t seen enough on this subject. This could have legs but it seems more likely at this point to be a distraction from the Russia issue.